r/news May 17 '21

There's a database whose mission is to stop problematic police officers from hopping between departments. But many agencies don't know it exists Not News

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/16/us/police-national-decertification-index-database/index.html
16k Upvotes

1k

u/AudibleNod May 17 '21

If the US forces cold-call telemarketers to buy the Do-Not-Call registry, it can just as easily force LEOs to use a list of these 'bad apples'. All it takes is political will power.

532

u/Bagellord May 17 '21

Good luck getting the police unions to allow this...

348

u/johnhummel May 17 '21

If citizens make their leaders legislate it, then it will happen. It's the same thing with minimum wage, work safety standards, not putting bone in chocolate so it "crunches".

People have done things before that businesses and organizations cry about, but at the end of the day if we want it, we can get it. Just takes people willing to push their leaders to make it happen, or replace them until they do.

182

u/dapostrophus May 17 '21

Wait, go back to the part about

not putting bone in chocolate so it "crunches".

Wassa happenin here?

134

u/CompletelyFlammable May 17 '21

Google has nothing on this, and rather than comfort me I am now suspicious that Google is supplying the bones...

43

u/Devotia May 18 '21

Why do you think they took out "Do no evil"?

19

u/neboskrebnut May 18 '21

it's 'don't be evil'. even if both are relative scrutinizing a whole thing is safer than each individual action.

besides, it's better that they did. alternatively they would still do the same things (because investors want profits) just tarnishing the meaning of 'not evil'.

17

u/BloodlustyGummybear May 18 '21

Kind of strange to officially remove an internal, unofficial motto of "Don't be evil" and replace it with nothing else.

Now they've been involved (or are still involved) with unmanned drone AI for warfare.

Remember kids, always don't be evil.

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u/Fr00stee May 18 '21

Apparently its still there just on alphabet's website instead of google's

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u/fishhead12 May 17 '21

There was a Monty python sketch, "Crunchy Frog"

Mr. Hilton: Oh, we use only the finest baby frogs, dew-picked and flown from Iraq, cleansed in the finest quality spring water, lightly killed, and sealed in a succulent, Swiss, quintuple-smooth, treble-milk chocolate envelope, and lovingly frosted with glucose.

5

u/siguefish May 18 '21

So, are you ready to try the Spring Surprise?

4

u/iLynux May 18 '21

I read this specifically in Stephen Fry's voice, even though he was not in Monty Python. But for some reason it strikes me more in the tone of A Bit of Fry and Laurie.

2

u/Aksi_Gu May 18 '21

If it helps the character in question is played by Terry Jones.

16

u/CrouchingToaster May 18 '21

in the victorian era british milk sellers would mix cleaning chemicals into rancid milk to make the bad taste and smell go away

The US has food safety laws for pies and what not so that companies can't put rotten ingredients in and sell it to unknowing consumers.

etc

14

u/thicclunchghost May 18 '21

Just like the workplace safety saying "regulations are written in blood.", same is true for food safety.

14

u/Channel250 May 18 '21

I shall stop eating crunch bars immediately.

After this one. And that one...it was 2/1 at CVS today...

15

u/SandysBurner May 18 '21

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but you've been in a coma for three and a half months.

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u/johnhummel May 17 '21

Something I remembered from high school. Possibly apocryphal, but one of the stories back in the old food safety days was adding things into the food because there was no regulation, like stuff that would make the chocolate "crunchy". One of the items I recalled was bone in chocolate - but that was likely an example by my history teacher of things that would have been legal until we started passing laws saying "You can't put some crap in the goddamn food."

9

u/JohnGillnitz May 17 '21

Jello is made out of bones.

33

u/YoureGrammarWronger May 17 '21

It's collagen which is a separate type of connective tissue. Collagen is more like what your nose and ear and the lining of your joints are made up of.

10

u/JBloodthorn May 18 '21

Jello is made out of nose and ear "bones".

4

u/Cousin_Eddie_Johnson May 17 '21

Is that a fact Clark?

17

u/JohnGillnitz May 18 '21

"Gelatin is a protein obtained by boiling skin, tendons, ligaments, and/or bones with water."

4

u/Invideeus May 18 '21

Yum.

I like green, what kind do you like?

2

u/BoltgunOnHisHip May 18 '21

The human meat-form is composed of 5% bone. Despite this it continues to function.

1

u/bigbangbilly May 18 '21

Dunno about this but toy could use peppermint canes to provide structure to the chocolate dude sculpture

1

u/TheHatedMilkMachine May 18 '21

My guess is that Nestlé’s or some other famous crunch bar was putting animal collagen in for the crunch, and now they’ve switched to like rice or something

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u/NuttingtoNutzy May 17 '21

You must live in a state where the legislature doesn’t take it upon themselves to block laws after voters pass them.

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u/AggravatingInstance7 May 17 '21

I disagree. Corporate will hire the correct social media firm to indoctrinate the idiots (who are only idiots because we defunded public education) to vote in a way that is beneficial to the current asshat holding public office. Current asshat in office lines his/her pockets and corporate continues to not pay taxes and dodge any ethical implications.

7

u/Joe-Schmeaux May 17 '21

This is what we're up against, but the consequences of giving up the fight against corruption is that things become even more corrupt even faster, and more people suffer worse because of it. We have to keep fighting misinformation and propaganda and promoting anyone found to be running for office who seems less corrupt than their fellows.

5

u/Aelig_ May 18 '21

Yes no country on earth has work safety standards.

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u/johnhummel May 17 '21

And yet somehow in some magic way - voters can change that. It’s weird that we’re seeing communities changing the laws about how police work. How we can pass civil rights or the New Deal. Like people didn’t just throw up their hands and say “I’m powerless nothing to be done” and made things happen.

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u/beefwich May 18 '21

There reaches an event horizon in any system where the inertia to make meaningful change to that system requires more force than can be exerted by the collective effort of those seeking to change it.

I mean, you’re looking to overcome systemic and situational ignorance, right wing bias, the lobbying power of the police unions, voter indifference and legislator indifference for this one specific issue. Then do it again in every district, precinct, county, parrish and borough in America.

How we can pass civil rights or the New Deal.

These two things happened in a very different political and cultural climate. I mean, shit, all the way up to Kennedy, people still hung portraits of the President in their house— and even folks who didn’t vote for him still respected him and the office.

When a President delivered a speech or addressed the nation, there wasn’t a 24 hours news cycle in place to dissect and spin and editorialize and litigate every word he said.

The disinformation machine existed— but it was small and disorganized. If you wanted some shit like QAnon, you had to attend meetings in the backs of gross bookstores and VFW halls in the uncomfortable presence of other lunatics and idiots.

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u/johnhummel May 18 '21

Oh sorry we should just give Up it’s all hopeless we can’t do anything because nothing matters.

Or so I’d say if I was a total spineless wimp.

4

u/AutismHour2 May 18 '21

Hes describing reality. Yes, peace is worth fighting for, but that doesnt mean we are long past the point where using the means we are accustomed to, like legislation (lmao) is going to work. The system depends on people thinking that progress is going to happen by using the very system designed to prevent it from happening.

This is why revolutions exist. Progress doesnt actually happen in a linear fashion with everyone smiling about it together holding hands. It's painful and has been in decline for 50 years.

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u/beefwich May 18 '21

I mean... that’s an incredibly reductive take on my argument which is sort of a shitty thing to do when someone offers a counterpoint in good faith.

Since you seemingly peeled smooth past the point I was trying to make here, I’ll state it plainly: when you’re talking about “the will of the people”, temper your expectations. For all the support on the side of change, there’s an opposing force looking to maintain the status quo— and that opposing force has home field advantage.

I get it— you’re a idealistic firebrand. There’s nothing wrong with that. You see the world how it should be and when it’s not, it motivates you to action. That’s great. The world needs that energy.

I’m a realist. I temper my optimism and pessimism by honestly appraising the world. There isn’t anything spineless about that.

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u/g3ntlemain May 18 '21

Does this mean this organization is an NGO? Why isn’t your government already doing this?

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u/No-Effort-7730 May 18 '21

Maybe we should ask Amazon for help to bust them.

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u/joec85 May 18 '21

Police unions shouldn't be a thing. They only exist to bully and allow bad cops to get away with murder. Well paid government employees don't need a damn union.

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u/rlawr15 May 18 '21

This is a garbage take, every workplace should have a union.

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u/RelaxPrime May 18 '21

If the US forces cold-call telemarketers to buy the Do-Not-Call registry

Lets find an example of something that works though eh?

How about malpractice insurance? When dollar bills are on the line, the insurance companies are very good at tracking violations and errors. Across borders and jurisdictions, and employers.

Not to mention, insurance is really the name of the game here- preventing tax payers for funding police officer mistakes and transgressions.

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u/summonern0x May 18 '21

So are you proposing something like an "injustice insurance"? Because I'm kind of on board here. Force a portion of police budgets to go toward insurance that will pay out to those that have been wronged by the force, while incentivizing them into good behavior by "releasing" the remaining funds to the precinct once every year.

Officer Thompson shot a black dude; the entire precinct has their yearly budget impacted. Or something like that. I can't say I fully understand the matter, but...

If every cop suffers the bad apples, there won't be many bad apples left before long.

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u/unoriginalsin May 18 '21

Force a portion of police budgets

No. A portion of officer pay. Make it a requirement that individual officers carry insurance, and make them pay for it out of their salaries. The fiscal risks of doing the job poorly will quickly separate the wheat from the chaff.

Even better, insurance companies will certainly offer discounts for participating in actually effective training. Threat deescalation, law literacy and citizen engagement will naturally bubble to the top of seminar topics.

Not only will we lose the worst of the bad cops, the good ones will get better at doing what we actually need them to do. Hell, departments may start to see the viability of dedicated Traffic Enforcement Officers who only write simple citations for speeding etc and wouldn't need to carry weapons because they're not going to engage in a high speed chase or try to search your car based on the "smell of marijuana".

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u/Reinventing_Wheels May 17 '21

Yea, look how totally effective the Do Not Call registry is.... /s

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u/Romodude40 May 18 '21

I registered my number and started getting spam calls.

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u/blipman17 May 18 '21

What did you expect! Telemarketers have problems getting legit numbers. It would be much more helpfull if they had like... a list of numbers they could call. Preferrably with name, birthday and place of residence attached.

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u/liquidpele May 18 '21

Actually it has been extremely effective... Maybe you’re just too young to remember how shit everything was in the 90s. The problem is that then voice over IP took over and the Telecom companies did not build any security or identity verification at all into the system so all the calls you receive now are scams and are already illegal even if it wasn’t due to the do not call registry. The do not call registry though was aimed at actual legitimate businesses that were harassing people and in that respect it was immediately effective.

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u/jthomson88 May 18 '21

Force to buy, but not force to comply. DNC list is pretty pointless at this time.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/AudibleNod May 17 '21

The legit ones do. And all LEOs are legit, right?

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u/homelesshermit May 17 '21

Only if they are not bad apples.

2

u/Amazingseed May 17 '21

Do bad apples kill doctors?

1

u/Shiyama23 May 18 '21

No, they're doctor bait.

4

u/summonern0x May 18 '21

If the US forces cold-call telemarketers to buy the Do-Not-Call registry

I woefully misread this as the US military cold-calling telemarketers as a sort of countermeasure against them...

7

u/amoghparahar May 18 '21

The police style themselves like the military with ranks, etc. It is more than fair that there be a notion of a dishonorable discharge, which should prevent one from working again in law enforcement.

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u/thinkmatt May 18 '21

Or just, you know, do background checks

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u/Blasterblastermaster May 17 '21

As a Political Science student, I for one support the use of this database, so there is hope.

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u/n0_use_for_a_name May 17 '21

“...But many agencies don’t care that it exists.” There ya go, fixed the title for you.

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u/threehundredthousand May 17 '21

They can already call up former employers and ask if they'd hire them again. I assume either the former job lies or the new job doesn't call to ask. If it's the former, then a 3rd party database could fix that. If it's the latter (which seems to be the case), then they'll ignore this like they have using existing channels to look into new hires.

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u/Teamchaoskick6 May 18 '21

The last time I read about it, only 1/3 employers will actually verify if you have a college degree when saying you do. Without things like security clearance vetting, tons of jobs (private and public) just go by honor code. In a moment of desperation I just kinda wanted to say I graduated from Georgia state because my name is extremely common and they have a huge student population.

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u/AutismHour2 May 18 '21

Resumes are loosley based on reality. The entire interview process is totally made up stories to exemplify fake values and to sound capitalismy. Take some adderall and you can pass any interview except for maybe top 5 software development companies. Otherwise, it is just a big confidence game and you can totally lie on your resume. That is how people climb the ladder.

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u/SillyDickinson May 18 '21

We call that fake it until you make it.

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u/AutismHour2 May 18 '21

End result of capitalism. 20% of people doing 80% of the work because most people are just networking and dont have skills. In the technical field, it's so fucking bad. I spent 6 years working super hard and providing value to the company. But only once I started sucking dick of CEOs and VPs did I get to 6 figures within just 2 years, from 80K.

It's all fucking nonsense. Most PMs, VPs, CEOs, are pep rally organizers and hand-shakers, that is all.

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u/ShadowyInsights May 18 '21

Well legally in the US, a former employer can ONLY give certain information, reason for termination isn't one of them. Mostly they can just confirm an employee worked for them between certain dates.

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u/airbornchaos May 18 '21

Some states add restrictions on top of that. I was once told that employment verification can only consist of yes/no questions, and cannot include any version of "are they re-hire eligible?" or "did they have any disciplinary action." So they were basically restricted to, "were they hired on or about <this date>?" and, "was their last day of work on or about <this date>?"

Not that there's any way to enforce that. Those calls are done in private where the protected party has no idea what's said or by whom, or if anyone ever called anyone. Just like this database. You have no idea who's entering the information, and no idea if the hiring agency even looked at it.

A much better solution would be to have the state POST agency actually involve themselves in investigating complaints against officers and suspend/revoke the peace officers license. The tools exist, we just don't use them, which is sad on a whole other level.

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u/ShadowyInsights May 18 '21

Not that there's any way to enforce that. Those calls are done in private where the protected party has no idea what's said or by whom, or if anyone ever called anyone. Just like this database. You have no idea who's entering the information, and no idea if the hiring agency even looked at it.

I mean, I can guarantee you these restrictions are broken all the time. But leave it to the police to follow the laws when it's beneficial to them.

I agree on we need some type of national police certification or licensing program. A lot of the problems with the modern policing system is that states often have such drastically different requirements, training, management methods.

While states should primarily be allowed to control a lot of these things, I do think some national standards, best practices, and guidance should be provided. Along with that a national registry of officer certifications and eligibility to work in states. We already have things for all sorts of professionals like lawyers and doctors. It only makes sense to put something similar in place for police.

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u/airbornchaos May 18 '21

We already have things for all sorts of professionals like lawyers and doctors. It only makes sense to put something similar in place for police.

That's the thing, Police do have something similar. If a doctor screws up, the state Board of Medicine suspends their license, and that information is public record. If Arkansas or Alaska revoke Dr. Stupid's medical license, then West Virginia or Wyoming will not to issue one, because that's a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

In law enforcement, all states have an entity that certifies an officer is eligible to be an officer. That is usually called POST or Peace Officer Standards and Training. Most often that certification is an actual license to act as a peace officer, and I'm not familiar with any state where POST does not have the authority to suspend or revoke an officer's license nor one where such action isn't public record.

The problem is, most states give POST the authority, but not the manpower nor mandate to do any of that.

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u/GoingOffline May 18 '21

They can literally only call to ask if a person worked there and what their job title was in my state. As if that actually happens anyways. But that’s the law at least.

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u/thenerfviking May 18 '21

You’re also operating on the supposition that the people in charge of hiring care. It was a pretty open secret in the California city I used to live in that the chief of police intentionally sought to hire officers that had been let go or suspended from other departments for police brutality because he wanted guys who were “tough”. Id believe it too because the police department there was a real murderers row of killers and violent bigots.

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u/Garfield-1-23-23 May 18 '21

Or they use it as a recruiting tool.

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u/hedgetank May 17 '21

Dagnabbit, I came here to post this. <shakes tiny fist>

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u/_Petronius May 17 '21

Came here for this

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u/emaw63 May 17 '21

But many agencies don’t know it exists don’t care

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u/Curleysound May 17 '21

How is it not completely obvious that they want the bad apples? They create the bad apples and train them to be this way?

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u/Joe-Schmeaux May 17 '21

Because there are people who simply refuse to believe that the authorities would become massively corrupt, because those authority figures say that they aren't corrupt, and that there are a lot of people out there, mostly criminals and their sympathizers, who do their best to smear the good name of law enforcement, and the media is complicit in this because it generates views. It's tough out there being a cop, but thanks to the support of level-headed community members like yourselves, we are able to continue fighting to keep our communities safe from drugs, gang activity, home invasions, and other dangerous criminal activity.

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u/PocketNicks May 18 '21

Is that last sentence a question?

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u/ImVeryOffended May 17 '21

"Don't know it exists" is a funny way to say "ignore that it exists" or "use it to seek new hires".

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u/Observethethinker May 18 '21

Catholic priests use the same system. I think for now on bad cops should become priests and bad priests should become cops. No wait that's a terrible idea nevermind.

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u/EADGB3 May 17 '21

but those fuckers will tell you about a warrant you have for jaywalking in a city, 4 states away

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u/Cichlidsaremyjam May 17 '21

Seems pretty cut and dry that this should be reviewed prior to hiring. I know blacklisting people for life might be harsh but if they have multiple offenses listed, maybe law enforcement isn't for them.

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u/curiousclownshoe May 17 '21

It's fucked that you need the second sentence, considering district attnys and police do not apply enforcement with much nuance. If agencies are tired of us using stereotypes and hyperbole when talking about police, they need to follow their own rules and hold their employees to account.

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u/lorarc May 17 '21

Of course it shouldn't be for them. In many countries criminal records expungments don't work when it comes to government agencies. In my country to become a police officer you have to have "flawless character" and they can refuse hiring you for having a bad opinion amongst your neighbours.

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u/Rickyspanish33 May 17 '21

Yeah they 'didn't know'

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u/MyOthrCarsAThrowaway May 18 '21

This should exist for catholic priests

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u/NuttingtoNutzy May 17 '21

The Obama administration had a massive grant program to help police departments procure body cameras. The big excuse many departments used at that time was no funds for them.

When the funds became available, many didn’t like the stipulations that required them to report deadly use of force statistics to a database. That was too oppressive.

Now the narrative for the same body camera less departments who refused the grants is back to, “we can’t afford them”

It’s safe to assume this database thing is the same kind of situation. First departments will say they didn’t know it exists, next will be an excuse it’s too prohibitive somehow, followed by another and another.

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u/BostonShaun May 18 '21

No departments "refused" the grant... they needed to apply and a lot more than the Government could supply did.

DoJ has a fact spreadsheet on it.

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u/MagicCuboid May 18 '21

I wonder if these are the same police who angrily yelled, "I'm going to see that no district ever hires you" at my friend in his interview after he told the truth that he'd tried smoking weed a few times and drank with friends when he was a minor?

I feel like some departments want dummies who will toe their line and be part of the club a lot more than they want honest people hoping to do good.

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u/gizmozed May 18 '21

The biggest problem we have here is a complete lack of accountability when a police officer screws up. In a sane world, the LEO would be in for some sort of sanction. Or the Police Department. But that is not the case. When lawsuits are settled, CITIES pay the judgement, which means the citizen TAXPAYERs pay it. So city police deparments don't care if they hire a rogue cop, it's no skin off their ass.

These judgements should be paid for by insurance whose premiums are paid by the officers themselves, malpractice insurance as is common in many professions, or by the police unions.

Until these financial incentives are re-organized, nothing is going to change much.

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u/JohnGillnitz May 17 '21

The little town I had a run in with had 3/4th of their police force, including it's Chief, indicted and convicted of abuse of power (or official repression...whatever). They all lost their license to practice law enforcement by the State. The officers just went to the Sheriff's Office. The Chief stayed on because the county gave him an exemption.
So, despite being charged and convicted of doing their job wrong, all of them are still enforcing the law as if nothing ever happened. The the whole county didn't care that they broke the law and planted evidence. Guess what they did to me? I should have swung my own white privilege dick around, but, after 3 years of bullshit, I was ready to pay a fine and walk away. After all, a trial would have a jury made of of the same people that endorse that kind of thing.

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u/michaeIbluth May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

UK has the barred and advisory lists. It means no jobs in law enforcement for at least five years and in many cases ever for those dismissed or who resigned or retired while being investigated: https://www.college.police.uk/ethics/barred-list

Edited to remove an error and tidy up

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u/Casne_Barlo May 17 '21

"In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can find The A-Team in this database."

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u/bigbangbilly May 18 '21

"In 2022, a group of police men was deemed unhirable by a database for things they definitely committed. These bastards promptly escaped from mundane reality to a drug fueled trip. Today, still unemployed and unhinged they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you're having trouble with the high school head, He's giving you the blues, here's what you gotta do, and if you can pick up the phone....maybe you can find dirty deeds done dirt cheap in this database."

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u/Shiyama23 May 18 '21

This terrified me because I didn't realize what it was from at first. This made my day.

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u/Safebox May 17 '21

In the UK we have the Ombudsmen whose sole jobs are to investigate reported police. I can't speak for how effective they are, but I'd imagine the US could really do with such a system...

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u/AsyncOverflow May 18 '21

In the US, agencies are able to have Internal Affairs departments. For larger forced like the NYPD and LAPD, they are completely separate. Reddit will probably downvote me for even pointing it out, though.

Everyone here thinks police investigate themselves, which just isn't true for the cases they think. However, on a grand scale, it's true. Small departments, which make up most of the police in the US, don't have the resources to have an IA department, so the investigation can easily be a bit too close to the source (but it's fairly nuanced and case-by-case).

Also, not everyone agrees on the integrity of certain IA departments, like in NYC. But I'm not involved in that, of course, so I can't tell you much (and neither can the vast majority of reddit, regardless of how confidently they speak).

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u/theflakybiscuit May 18 '21

The NYPD internal affairs are police officers, they aren’t civilians with no connection to the people they are investigating. Granted working in IAB doesn’t mean you make friends easily with other police officers as most dislike IAB because of the interference they do. Every complaint is looked into though I can’t say how deep they go into them all. I know if the compliant doesn’t contact IAB back or can’t provide evidence to their complaint it’s dropped.

My dad was a sergeant in the NYPD for 20 years. He had about 5 complaints against him and 2 were substantiated. So IAB does do their job just not as well as we’d all like.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/zeenotzed50 May 17 '21

that’s not how it works, but keep telling yourself that.

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u/series_hybrid May 17 '21

Even if a small police department uses it, all the cop has to say is "I learned my lesson, no more misbehavior, right?". If the department is short-handed, he will get the job.

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u/ma-sadieJ May 18 '21

Correction “many agencies don't care to use it” there I fixed it for you.

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u/bkornblith May 18 '21

They know it exists. They just don’t care.

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u/-Quothe- May 18 '21

Don't confuse arrogance with ignorance; they know about the database.

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u/BizzyM May 18 '21

Just checked my HR contact; we use it.

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u/mark-haus May 18 '21

I think the real question is would they even care if they knew? We know how often they look the other way when right wing psychos are openly on their ranks

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u/LuminaryChaos_ May 18 '21

Dont know it exists or doesnt care.

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u/fleetadmiralj May 18 '21

They don't know it exists or don't care it exists?

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u/pck3 May 17 '21

Don't know DOES NOT equal don't care.

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u/DeadlyPancak3 May 17 '21

Many agencies dont CARE* that it exists.

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u/ohbenito May 17 '21

if they acknowledge it exists then they are culpable in the hiring of the bad apples.

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u/tmdblya May 17 '21

Don’t know? Or don’t care?

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u/OneScoobyDoes May 17 '21

*Leased from the Vatican

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u/aDeadlyDonut May 17 '21

"but many agencies [don't care]."

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u/NobodyFollowsAKiller May 17 '21

Lemme fix this...cares it exists

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u/jdith123 May 18 '21

Don’t know or don’t care?

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u/groovyinutah May 18 '21

They don't know because they don't want to know...

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u/ElGuano May 18 '21

But many agencies don't know it exists

You dropped an "ack" at the beginning and "ledge" at the end.

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u/fuimapirate May 18 '21

They don't want to know it exists. there's a difference.

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u/ripyurballsoff May 18 '21

Are the prospective agencies not calling references and supervisors to see how they were at their last post ?? Like regular jobs ???

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u/Lucifurnace May 18 '21

Oh they know. They just dont fucking care.

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u/Pf70_Coin May 18 '21

Shit boward county probably hires from it

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u/pixelkarma May 18 '21

Make the database public

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u/RedBull7 May 18 '21

Why should have these records even an officer is disciplined and put it in like a “codis database” and every time an officer is hired they’re checked against that.

Just a thought.

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u/Squidster777 May 18 '21

I lived in Lubbock. Very corrupt police. A lot work for the cartel. Had a chick who was like a little sister to me. She had an abusive boyfriend who constantly beat the shit out of her. She was my roommates lil sister. We had her stay at our crib for safety, and we called him on her phone to give us her clothes and stuff (she lived with him). He started screaming into the phone saying he’ll murder us and what not. She didn’t know the exact apartment number, but we found out through his friends. Apartment was next door to the police station. Called 3 times for an escort in case he had a gun. No cop came over. Was a 30 second walk. So we banged on his door, nobody answered. His friends that had him on find my friends said he was home. Called police one more time, never came. We said fuck it were kicking his door in. Went up and all her stuff was outside his door. For months we tried to get her a restraining order, but cops wouldn’t do it. She got an apartment on the other side of town. Somehow he found out and got and apartment in the same building. Wouldn’t stop abusing her. 9 months after the apartment incident she hung herself in her closet.

Also, the girl I was dating at the time kept getting her house broken into. The first time, the door was kicked in, but the times that followed, no doors or windows were broken. Weird things were stolen. All the expensive things were left like her tv and laptops and what not. Things that went missing were her bongs and dirty laundry. She puts a hidden camera in her house. House gets broken into again the next week. Turns out it was the apartment cop that lived 3 doors down. He had been stealing her dirty underwear. He was the same one that helped her the first time she got broken into. He watched her type the code to her apartment door and memorized it, which is why the door wasn’t kicked in the following break ins. We freak out. Nothing we can do because we can’t call the cops. Cop finds out I’m her boyfriend. He’s very upset about it. Figures out what car I drive and my license plate. Any time I drove anywhere he’d somehow know where I was and would follow my car. He’d get real close behind me while driving, almost rear ending my car. Decided I wasn’t gonna drive for the remainder of college. Had to walk everywhere or have her pick me up. Her dad was ex FBI. He called up his buddies and asked for a favor and to look into that officer. They come back and tell him he was fired from another police department for sexually assaulting women he arrested.

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u/YouUsedMe May 18 '21 edited May 18 '21

Maybe better psychological vetting for law enforcement might be needed.

They also need to diversify its ranks to include other personality and political affiliations not just gender and race.

In other words, stop mostly hiring white males who are very right wing and are gun nuts

So many cops think that if any interaction doesn’t result in either a citation, someone leaving in handcuffs or in a body bag, it means they haven’t done their job.

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u/jdmachogg May 18 '21

Don’t know or don’t care?

2

u/inconspicuous_male May 18 '21

IMO there should be statewide police registries, and getting a registration should not be handled by the police. A policing license should be something easy to lose but require effort to regain

2

u/Galaxy_Ranger_Bob May 18 '21

But many agencies don't know it exists

Oh, they know. They probably check it first when they have an opening to fill.

2

u/caged-by-comfort May 18 '21

Before anything is done the police unions need to be dissolved. Go for the head first & the body follows.

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u/Mudder1310 May 18 '21

Some agencies seek out “proactive” officers.

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u/heidguy8 May 18 '21

"But many agencies don't care it exists" fixed that for ya.

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u/redunculuspanda May 18 '21

Why go to all this hassle. Just revoke their license… oh.

2

u/CleverNameTheSecond May 18 '21

Over/under on some PDs using this as a list to hire from?

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u/idrow1 May 18 '21

Like the church, except their mission is to facilitate problem priests with hopping between churches.

5

u/838h920 May 17 '21

There are police departments that actually look for fired officers to hire them. Even if such a database is well known it sadly won't stop them from being rehired.

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u/xxAkirhaxx May 17 '21

I also don't know about things when I cover my eyes and plug my ears.

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u/Pachonkachonk May 17 '21

Lol "don't know it exists" is a funny way to say intentionally don't want.

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u/OrderlyPanic May 17 '21

Many more agencies don't want to know it exists.

2

u/Deenyc43 May 17 '21

why would a police dept that is protecting their own and getting them new jobs want this database? We need to pass a law preventing fired officers from working in law enforcement ever again.

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u/Fresh-Temporary666 May 18 '21

Seriously. Cops in my country require a uni or college education and then police training and they still get away with shit. The union is so strong that if you get fired you should be barred from any job that involves you holding any sort of weapon.

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u/hurtum May 17 '21

The assumption is that they care.

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u/knightopusdei May 18 '21

*Many agencies don't CARE that it exists

2

u/grubtubs May 18 '21

I took an Information Systems class in college and for my final I created an information system that would provide a public access national database that stores all police department recorded behaviors of all law enforcement personnel across the United States.

I believe that law enforcement personnel are public officials and as a result have no expectation of privacy when performing their official duties.

The system would apply to all law enforcement officers;

  • regardless of duty status
  • probationary status
  • any summary punishment imposed by a high ranking officer
  • complaints of allegations of misconduct made against an employee of the department
  • violations and/or infringements of a law, rule, regulation, procedure, standard of conduct or lawful order
  • any communications made between a supervisor and employee with regards to counseling
  • the use of unnecessary or excessive physical force in the form of brutality
  • any formal charges brought against the officer by a hearing board
  • any non-punitive transfer
  • any lawful or unlawful firearm discharges

None of the information above would be subject to removal under a federal database such that law enforcement officers will not be allowed to have unions lobby to expunge their records after 30/60/90 days.

You can login to the system which is distributed and maintained by a branch of the federal government subject to independent investigations which allows users (you) to narrow your search of any law enforcement officer by;

  • First name
  • Last Name
  • Agency
  • Badge Number
  • Job Title
  • City and State
  • Types of misconduct

The way that it works is that all law enforcement agencies, local, regional, special and statewide government agencies (state police) of the U.S., of the federal district, and of the territories that provide law enforcement duties, will report any recorded information on all law enforcement personnel to the Bureau of Justice. The Bureau itself would be responsible with creating an apparatus to facilitate a portal for the public to access all of these records.

Benefits:

  • By showcasing all department recorded behaviors on behalf of all law enforcement personnel, officers will be [SHOULD be] more aware and held accountable for all their past and present actions in real time.
  • Since law enforcement has access to all personal information of citizens, it is fair for the citizen to have the opportunity to know the past behavior and recorded actions of the officer as well, this system allows for citizens to have more information regarding the officer they speak to and allows a fair trade of information between them.
  • This system can create a basis of trust between the two parties by allowing the citizen to know the personnel more and for officers to be able to serve the citizens accordingly with accountability of their recorded actions.

Problems:

  • Cost. Building an apparatus is going to cost us a lot of taxpayer dollars to spin up and maintain.
  • Security. Subsystems would need to be implemented and compartmentalization of data would need to happen such that the private information of a public official need not be published nor accessed.
  • Legality. This will be taken to the courts under the presumption that law enforcement personnel have a right to privacy with respect to their department records despite serving as a public official.

We have the capacity, knowledge, and wherewithal to hold officers more accountable for their actions and prevent them from hopping from agency to agency. We have the ability to write legislation that prevents law enforcement unions from expunging personnel records after 30/60/90 days. Our legislative branch can literally bring this into reality.

We gave them body cams. And if we want more accountability than all it takes is creating more awareness and momentum for increased transparency.

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u/GrantSRobertson May 18 '21

"... who say they don't know about it."

TIFTFY

If anything, some police departments probably use it to find their candidates.

2

u/spaitken May 18 '21

Don’t know or don’t care?

3

u/sweetacidophilus May 17 '21

“Don’t know”

1

u/wildcardyeehaw May 17 '21

would they use it if they id know about it

1

u/Bar98704 May 17 '21

They should get one of these for the catholic church

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u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/ChrisFromIT May 17 '21

Not sure if you are aware, but it is common in background checks for past termination to be uncovered, especially terminations for cause.

With a for cause termination, it is extremely difficult to get hired at a new work place unless the new employer doesn't know about the for cause termination.

Also what you seem to not understand is that typically when a police officer has to go to a different jurisdiction for work, they have been terminated for cause. And usually one that justifies that they shouldn't be on any police force anymore.

2

u/prototablet May 17 '21

typically when a police officer has to go to a different jurisdiction for work

You're technically right because you said "has to go". However, it's very common for police and fire to laterally transfer between agencies for perfectly valid reasons. Typically the person will go to a less desirable agency to gain experience and then, after a few years, lateral to where they really wanted to work. With some agencies, a large percentage of the workforce got there that way.

Now, if someone tries to do a lateral hire from Las Vegas Metro PD to Pahrump PD, they'd better have a damned good story...

Biden could pretty easily force this through, or at least go to war with the police unions: issue an executive order directing DOJ to make all Federal grants contingent on the uniform use of the bad apple database. Few departments can afford to turn that money/training/equipment away. Based on Biden's legislative history, he's a pretty law and order kind of guy, so I suspect some careful lobbying would get him to sign that EO without much effort. BLM and related movements would be a pretty effective foil against the unions.

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u/RelevantBossBitch May 17 '21

Ya, Lets ban that sales clerk that's jumping companies for a better package cuz it's the same as blocking a cop with a history of abuse and death

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u/AuthenTosh May 17 '21

Yeah, as much as I loathe PDs now, we also don't want to ruin someone's livelihood for all time, unless they did a crime for which that's warranted.

0

u/bigbangbilly May 17 '21

Even if they posess the knowledge of such a list the Police Union could fight tooth an nail over this

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u/ButterBrother3000 May 18 '21

Why not just put 100% of all officers on the list?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/drdisney May 17 '21

Isn't it normal for the hiring agency to call the privious employer to ask if the officer is rehirable ? Seems pretty standard policy

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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ May 17 '21

It’s also a legal requirement in every state to verify that the officer has/can obtain a peace officer license, but no one seems to understand that either.

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u/vanishplusxzone May 17 '21

But many agencies don't know care it exists.

Fixed it for them. Implying they don't know why officers have been previously dismissed is super generous.

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u/[deleted] May 18 '21

[removed]

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u/imperfectPerson May 18 '21

Or becoming probation officers.

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u/Contrary-Canary May 18 '21

Don't they already have an employee database?

1

u/Topeka65 May 18 '21

Here's a fun mental exercise - would the police department where you live directly ask applicants if they have been fired from law enforcement positions in other jurisdictions?

If they do, would they verify, and then add any Failure To Disclose events to the record of those they found in the Do Not Hire database?

I have worked with (not for) agencies that I believe would do this, which made me proud to associate with them. Others, not so much.

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u/Alacrityzeal May 18 '21

I’m going to go out on a limb and say they do know about but simply ignore/don’t want to acknowledge it’s existence.

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u/Peg-LegJim May 18 '21

So let’s make a Federal mandatory database check for LEO’s (& every other line of work, if they offended before, they’ll do it again). I was a Contractor in 2 states for years, & I swear my business history was scrutinized more than LEO’s. SMDH. Every GOOD LEO out there is saying “Damned STRAIGHT!!!”

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u/brandons404 May 18 '21

Databases can have missions?

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u/kandoras May 18 '21

The New Jersey Division of Criminal Justice Police Training Commission told CNN "police licensure is a work in progress" in the state that the attorney general and the commission is making it a top priority.

With all the incidents of police brutality over the years, if you don't have something like this in place yet, it's a priority for your agency ranked somewhere just behind "Finish your Jimmy Hoffa / DB Cooper slashfic."

Someone graduates a police academy, they're added to the certified list. They get fired or quit just ahead of getting fired, they're taken off that and added to the decertified list.

This should not be that difficult.

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u/Jimste7733 May 18 '21

The RCMP are well aware of the data, they assist in reassigning them quietly into new communities.

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u/production-values May 18 '21

you kidding me? That site is actually their #1 recruitment tool!!!!