r/nba NBA 9d ago

[Barrasso] Charles Barkley: ‘I Root Against All Superteams’

“KD is a great player, and I think he’s a great kid,” Barkley said on a conference call for this weekend’s American Century Championship golf tournament. “I don’t know him that well, but I’m not a fan of superteams. So listen, if they win it, they win it, but to be perfectly clear, I’m rooting against those guys. I root against all superteams.

“If I’d known you guys were going to make fun of me for not winning a championship, I would have joined a superteam back in my day—me and Patrick [Ewing] and Karl Malone and John Stockton. But I feel good about my legacy. I’m pretty sure Patrick and John and Karl do, too. LeBron [James] started this superteam thing [in Miami], and hey, it’s the way the game is played now.”

“When Kawhi [Leonard] left Toronto—other than Chicago, that’s my favorite city in the world, [but] I’m never going there again,” Barkley said, noting that the Raptors are no longer a contender since Leonard left in free agency. “When LeBron left Cleveland, I’m never going there again. When James [Harden] left Houston, I’m never going to Houston again. Same thing when LeBron left Miami. Oklahoma City, once KD left, we’re never going back there again. And I don’t think that’s good for the game.

“To go back to my day, even though we didn’t win the championship, the Sixers were worth watching. The Knicks were worth watching. The Pacers were worth watching when Reggie was there, same thing with Atlanta and Dominique. I just don’t think it’s good for business, but these young kids, they all fold to peer pressure and feel like they’ve got to win a championship or their life sucks. I don’t believe that. Listen, there’s not many people I’d trade my life with.”

“I hope the two sides [fans and players] come together. I think the fans realize that life sucks without sports. If you don’t have sports, all you have is reality, and reality sucks. And the players learned that sports really sucks without fans. I’m hoping this is a turning point where we start having more respect for each other, and my jackass players don’t load-manage and sit out when they’re not hurt and won’t play back-to-back games. And I hope the fans [realize], if they give 110%, whether we win or not, [you] live with that. I’m hoping this is a time of reflection for fans and players to realize we’re much better together than apart.”

“I’m glad to see the Suns doing well. The food is better now. When they weren’t winning, they were selling cold nachos. They weren’t even putting jalapenos on it. You could park right beside the court, there were no fans. Now we’re back to being sold out every night. I love it.”

Source: https://www.si.com/nba/2021/06/10/charles-barkley-nba-playoffs-nets-superteam

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u/AthKaElGal Lakers 9d ago

“I’m glad to see the Suns doing well. The food is better now. When they
weren’t winning, they were selling cold nachos. They weren’t even
putting jalapenos on it. You could park right beside the court, there
were no fans.

😂😂😂

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u/maybeAturtle 9d ago

So glad I read until the end

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u/jEsTsBaCk Knicks 8d ago

Uncle Chuck for commish

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u/s1n0d3utscht3k San Diego Clippers 9d ago

one of the best moments in TNT history

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u/IdunnoLXG Pistons 9d ago

"Cold cheese Shaq.. AND THE CHIPS WERE STALE!"

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u/justinmillerco Celtics 9d ago

“Tell em about the parking, Chuck.”

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u/Wild-Apricot-9161 Celtics 9d ago

"Oh there was plenty of parking!"

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u/IAmARetardo Supersonics 8d ago

I love the lead into the rant.

Chuck - "Man, look at them empty seat. Best fans in the world and they gotta watch this trash"

Kenny - "c'mon man now they are trash?

Ernie- "They have a tonn of injuries, their best three scorers out"

Chuck - "They were no go when they had'em"

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u/Revolutionary-Pace42 Supersonics 8d ago

Kenny was throwing lobs at Chuck all day. That chemistry is so special.

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u/ELITEJakeFromm Hawks 8d ago

Underrated chemistry since most of r/nba can’t stand Kenny but he sets chuck and Shaq up for some banger one liners

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u/WadeCountyClutch Lakers 9d ago

Shaq “ ah huh huh ha huh ha”

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u/s1n0d3utscht3k San Diego Clippers 9d ago

stale chips… dirty seats…

plenty of parking! park right up ‘side the building!

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u/methshin Raptors 9d ago

Dirty seats man

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u/K12_DBG Jazz 9d ago

The studio really lost it when he made the dirty seats comment. Cause it seemed like he may run out of ammo at that point, but it was one of the funniest comments in that rant.

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u/Midnight_Swampwalk Raptors 9d ago

And the all-time assist from ernie asking how the parking is.

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u/K12_DBG Jazz 9d ago

That was a great Ernie dime, but the best of all-time was during the Chuck churro eating/invisible cock sucking segment, Ernie had to see how Chuck would drink Shaq soda and eat a churro all at once. Lmao.

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u/_Log_Jammin_ Suns 9d ago

That or the big ole women rant.

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u/eternali17 Clippers 9d ago

Victoria's a secret down there

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u/wellgroomedmcpoyle [BOS] Avery Bradley 9d ago

Double fisting them churros

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u/JimmyJustice920 Bucks 9d ago

Shaq: hey chuck! What you know about san antonio?

Chuck: they got some big ol' women down in san antonio...

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u/Thatguy19901 Celtics 9d ago

"How are the cheerleaders?"

"Oh they ugly."

Throwaway joke while the commercial break music plays fucking kills me lol

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u/8BITRio Warriors 8d ago

"I GOTTA LEAVE THE SET"

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u/SerDire 9d ago

All time great Barkley rant

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u/Revolutionary-Pace42 Supersonics 9d ago

I'm surprised that people don't know about this which became this masterpiece

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u/vin1223 76ers 9d ago

Phoenix imports its cheerleaders from San Antonio

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u/ahuggablecactus Mavericks 9d ago

some big ol women down in san antonio

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u/-orangejoe [NYK] Ron Baker 8d ago

My favorite part is "plenty of parking."

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u/appasdiary Wizards 9d ago

Lol how did I never watch audio toons until now?? Omgg too funny

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u/Wyden_long Suns 9d ago

As a season ticket holder I can confrim this is now fact

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u/LostWithStuff 9d ago

stale popcorn and the dirty seats

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u/benjammin9292 Bulls 9d ago

Beer is flat

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u/the_murcielago Spurs 9d ago

Big ol woman in San Antonio lmao

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u/Mellothewise [MIA] Josh Richardson 9d ago

Shaq couldn't have been the first ex-NBA player who personally just flaunted around their rings right?

Had to have started somewhere.

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u/Ubershizza Lakers 9d ago

The oldest interview\recording I have seen was Jordan, but it probably started before that.

Magic\Bird probably let people have it that hadn't won as well. Despite his really bland tweets Magic was a shit talker in practice and on the court.

I think the media just started amplifying the idea the more history the game has. It really is the easiest disqualifier when you get into ranking players from wildly different eras. Were they ever able to win the biggest prize, what they should have been striving towards their whole career?

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u/PB-and-Jamz Heat 9d ago

Players have a lot more respect for each other than the media has for any of them. And fans don't hear directly from players nearly as much as hear from the media. I think ESPN being the TMZ of sports and having to come up 24 hours of programming every day incentivized them to just spew out a lot of empty bullshit rhetoric just to fill airtime. Hence the birth of the "rings are everything" narrative.

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u/wolverine1819 Pistons 9d ago

I think it’s because players know how hard it is to get to that level so they appreciate those who are making it looks easy

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u/40Vert [PHI] Andrew Toney 9d ago

Though not players, Magic/Bird's fanbase were all saying that about MJ (I believe both of those guys had already announced MJ as GOAT too) and before that I know Wilt was also criticised for not having nearly as many as Russell

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u/treemeista Thunder 9d ago

I think the value of championships has always been ingrained into this sport more than most, simply because of the impact a single player can have on a game. Russell set the bar, then Magic, Bird, and Jordan continued in the modern era. Since those three, the bar was set that if you want to be at the top of the top, you have to win. Plus you have clowns on TV that simplify “rings or bust” argument for ratings.

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u/andyANDlandrySHOW 9d ago

oh man in that dream team movie that's free on youtube magic doesn't stop talking the entire time he's on the court lol

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u/lana-drah Bulls 9d ago

There is an interview on Oprah with barkely and Jordan and charles says whenever they have an argument jordan goes "where's your rings" or something to that effect.

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u/Iontknowcuz Heat 9d ago

Yea Barkley took that shit from Jordan so he definitely can take it from Shaq as well.

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u/theyoloGod Tampa Bay Raptors 9d ago

Are those 2 still fighting? It's a shame, I love seeing these old interviews but then you find out they aren't close anymore

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u/zeke_maximus11 Suns 9d ago

Yeah i believe so. Barkley called michael jordan the michael jordan of bad owners 😂😂😂

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u/signmeupdude Lakers 9d ago

That’s a hilarious line lmao

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u/Nostroloppoccus Rockets 9d ago

LMFAOOO tell me there’s video

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u/captaincumsock69 Celtics 9d ago

Probably bc mike is an asshole in person

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u/EGarrett Nets 9d ago

MJ apparently got upset at Chuck saying he was doing a poor job with the Hornets.

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u/kawhi_tho Spurs 8d ago

Well then maybe he shouldn't have done such a poor job with the Hornets

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u/Iontknowcuz Heat 8d ago

Yea, but Chuck never got upset and wanted to end the friendship when Michael said Chuck couldn’t “dedicate himself to win a championship”. But Chuck speaks his mind and its like friendship over.

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u/Deuce_GM Bucks 9d ago

Lol Mike doesn't even need to do that, just say " I got 4 more MVPs than you"

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u/Gainit2020throwaway 9d ago

The best burn of the interview is Barkley saying Tiger was helping him on his swing and Jordan says, "Tiger don't want nothing to do with you"

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u/bodega_cat_ Knicks 9d ago

That just sounds mean lol

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u/chunkyI0ver53 Knicks 9d ago

Imo that’s not even a burn but it probably sounds funny coming out of MJs mouth because he’s got a comedian voice

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u/oarabbus San Francisco Warriors 9d ago

Imagine how obnoxious Brady would be if he was like Shaq

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u/BMBA24 Bucks 9d ago

How many rangz I got Michael

more than you Peyton. I got more than you.

comes to every halftime show with 7 rings. Trashes every young QB as soft.

Idk id enjoy it

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u/No__Champagne 76ers 9d ago

The difference is that Brady can take a joke. Shaq's got thin skin for such a big man.

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u/Mygaffer Warriors 9d ago edited 5d ago

That skin must be stretched pretty taught taut over that big body to make it so thin.

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u/TimeFourChanges 76ers 9d ago

*taut

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u/mynameisdamn 9d ago

Toight like a toiger

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u/hiroki1998 Knicks 9d ago

OMG I'm blanking out. Was it Fat Bastard or Goldmember that said that?

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u/mynameisdamn 9d ago

The one Mike Myers played

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u/Operation_Ivysaur [GSW] Andre Iguodala 9d ago

It was Goldmember lol.

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u/makemeking706 Knicks 9d ago

Toight nups.

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u/TheCrookedKnight 76ers 9d ago

Cool cool cool

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u/whiskey_rue 9d ago edited 9d ago

I once heard him described as the biggest man with a Napoleon complex and it made perfect sense to me.

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u/The14thPanther 9d ago

Chucks (on Conan’s podcast) described Shaq as the man with ‘the thinnest skin and the biggest heart’ - seems pretty accurate to me.

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u/w0nderbrad Lakers 9d ago

I think that describes him so well and kind of puts his drama as a player into perspective. I was always team shaq bc he seemed like such a good person.

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u/EGarrett Nets 9d ago

I don't think Shaq is that great at verbal-sparring, on top of it he was also so large that I don't think anybody ever really messed with him like that growing up, so he doesn't know what to do when someone else starts busting his balls and just gets angry or pulls out a blunt object like his rings or money.

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u/dgolden1515 Celtics 9d ago

Charles Barkley is the embodiment of human duality

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u/-LeBronto- 9d ago

Nachos vs Churros

Who you got ?!

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u/dontlookatthechicken 9d ago

Yo chuck, show me again how they eat those churros!

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u/schoolairplane 76ers 9d ago

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u/FreedomToDrill Jazz 8d ago

Strike that from the record!

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u/I_Hate_Traffic 76ers Bandwagon 9d ago

windex laughs

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u/MrBallistik Pistons 9d ago

Nachos. Salty > sweet.

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u/Just2_Stare_at_Stars Trail Blazers 9d ago

It's tough, most of the time you do want salty. But that one fucking hour you would kill for a delicious, sweet dessert and you only have nachos again is devastating.

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u/RobbobertoBuii Knicks 9d ago

factssss

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u/Hulk_Smang Pistons 9d ago

This man snacks

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u/somebodygetmemymoney Bulls 9d ago

You perfectly described that feeling

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u/ryesci Raptors 9d ago

I think the fans realize that life sucks without sports. If you don’t have sports, all you have is reality, and reality sucks.

I love him so much.

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u/__________________Z_ 9d ago

Someone show him 17776 if he doesn't know it already.

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u/peacebuster 9d ago

I was expecting that to be 177013 before I clicked the link.

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u/bruhdotjaypeg Hawks 9d ago

seeing 177013 being mentioned on r/nba is the last place I would have expected for where it would show up

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u/theaspiringchimp Raptors 9d ago

What the fuck did I just read haha

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u/LeathaLurker Trail Blazers 9d ago

Welcome to the cult of Jon bois

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u/IAmTotallyNotSatan Warriors 9d ago

There’s a sequel! 20020, by the same author (and a third, 20021, coming out soonish.)

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u/blazik Raptors 8d ago

Wtf is this I just had a bit of a panic attack lmaoo

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u/doctorslimpickle Hawks 9d ago

I think what bores me the most about modern superteams is the lack of connection between the players and the team. I love seeing fan-favorite players win with their teams after years of trying. Kyle Lowry finally getting to the finals with the Raptors was one of my favorite basketball moments of all time, the look of joy on his face when he finally made it was amazing. I don't think it would have been the same if he had forced a trade to join up with some other all-stars. I think it's why KD was never really satisfied when he won those rings with the Warriors, he finally made it to the peak of basketball achievement but it didn't mean as much as it would have if he won with the Thunder, both to him and the fans. I can't fault players or franchises for trying to win a championship at all costs and I'm happy for Clippers and Nets fans that have had to take shit for a long time, but something about these superteams feels hollow to me.

This model of superstars in their prime forcing trades/signing with a team in free agency and then that team auctioning off all their young talent for other superstars/vets looking to win a ring just bores me. If the Clippers or Nets win a ring I won't be filled with rage or swearing at my television, I'll just be bored. Before anyone says it, yes I'm sure if the Hawks traded off all of their young players for superstars and won a ring I would be happy. But it wouldn't be the same as if we won with our young core now.

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u/glansberg_stephen Mavericks 9d ago

Obviously Dirk is the model for this but it's also why I love Michael Finley so much. If we were just rotating star players all the time I wouldn't have an attachment to somebody like him. There is a special bond with guys who spend a long time with your favorite team.

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u/Mav21Fo Mavericks 9d ago

Fin was my fav growing up. Started watching in ‘02.

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u/absenceofheat Mavericks 9d ago

Dude could dunk so hard it seemed.

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u/GrizzVanMan Vancouver Grizzlies 8d ago

Same concept with Reggie in Indy. Even tho he didn’t win it all, he will always be an icon there

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u/HereComesJustice Spurs 8d ago

We got Finley his ring don't worry

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u/JDP008 Bucks 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is exactly why I might cry if the Bucks somehow win it all this year. Giannis and Khris have been our core for 8 years, I’ve been watching them together since I was in 8th grade, would be amazing to watch them get a ring together after so many years of struggling towards that goal. Wouldn’t feel as good if we sucked for a long time and then 3 superstars just happened to join the team and win a ring. I’d still be stoked obviously, but as a fan I’d value 1 ring with Giannis/Khris more than 3 rings with an artificially assembled super team

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u/sourdieselfuel Bucks 8d ago

I'll cry if the Bucks fucking make the Finals. I'm still pissed over how we got so fucked in 2001 but that seems definitely before your Fandom was possible.

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u/robman17 Mavericks 9d ago

Connection between fans and players is so important. In 2011 when Dirk ran off the court in tears at the end of game 6, the entire DFW felt that in their collective core. Every fan that was there in the Nash/Finley days was crying with him in that locker room, every fan that was there in the 2006 collapse was there with him, every fan that watched the 67 win team loose to the We Believe Warriors was there. The moment where he and JET hugged at half court almost broke me.

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u/treemeista Thunder 9d ago

100% agree with you. I just don’t think players today care about that stuff as much as fans do. Especially with the normalization of teaming up with each other over the last ten plus years. I don’t know if we well ever see a Dirk type player again. Giannis has a shot, but I’m afraid if the Bucks fall short over the next couple of years, the pressure to win will be too much and he’ll ask for a trade. Hope I’m wrong.

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u/trashiguitar [BOS] Larry Bird 9d ago

I'm not even a Mavs fan and I feel the win everytime I watch the final game.

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u/Acrobatic_Ganache_61 9d ago

The issue that should be addressed is that drafted players have the same cap hit to a team as the signed free agents. Hawks are an exciting team which will have to make tough decisions soon on who to keep, being penalized for drafting excellent. IMO drafted players should have a 50% cap hit, incentivizing all teams (including the big markets) to develop their core rather than trade for superstars. Superstars also, will be incentivized to stay as the addition of quality role players will be easier and therefore will have high chances to win. The storylines will be also great.

The current salary system unfairly penalizes teams for developing their young players. Ultimately, teams reach a dead end as they either pay big to keep them handicapping their depth and win chances or trade them for ready to win superstars

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u/doctorslimpickle Hawks 9d ago

I completely agree, I love this Hawks team but realistically the young core we currently have will be broken up within a season or two. Maybe even sooner since Collins is about to be a restricted free agent this offseason. It would be great if we could see this team grow together.

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u/intecknicolour Raptors 9d ago

cuz few teams have their own guys anymore since they all move around trying to angle for a ring.

i think guys like dame should be commended for trying to run it back year after year on a smaller market team like portland and trying to build a strong team around himself.

same with giannis and the bucks. giannis could've declined an extension and you just know the big dogs would be clambering for his signature.

and yeah very happy for my dog klow for brining the trophy to toronto. he's basically the GOAT raptor now.

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u/Nexus_DarkShadow 9d ago

Really hope we win with Trae and company, it would feel like 15' with the Warriors. Drafting into contention with our home brewed boys.

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u/DragonBank 76ers 9d ago

I would love to see this. I feel like none of the top talent players from Embiid and younger have moved yet. Guys like Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Trae I would love to see stay with their franchises for their entire prime.

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u/stealer_of_monkeys Celtics 9d ago

Is it weird that I'm worried about that sort of stuff not happening and the young stars demanding trades and ring chasing?

It's one of the things that kinda just sits there in the back of my mind every off-season, "what if Tatum and Brown get tired of not getting over the hump? What if they're done with this franchise and are gonna be on the next super team across the country by next season?"

Anybody else think like that?

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u/NumberZero29 Thunder 9d ago

I say this a lot but Russell is special to Thunder fans. He planted his flag in the soil and chose to stay when he had easier options elsewhere. He could have ran down his contract and left for LA or Miami. Instead, he chose to spend the best years of his career playing for the Thunder. DeMar was the same way with Toronto and I have huge admiration for him, it takes courage to pursue a harder road. I don't care about the rings, those guys are legends in my book, legends. I understand it is a business decision for KD and he has to do what he feels is right but man, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth

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u/10tacleparty Raptors 8d ago

Thats what sucks the most about the DeRozan trade for me. He was one of the few stars that actually wanted to be in Toronto. Yeah we traded him and won a ring but Toronto will probably not get a star as loyal as DeRozan or Lowry for a very long time.

There's just something about seeing a loyal star play with your city for years even if they can't win it all, it still makes the season fun to watch and an easy team to root for. Can't say the same about nets.

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u/Domanshi Warriors 8d ago

Man I'd wish they gave DeRozan one more shot before he was traded. I get It that year by year they were booted off by the Cavs, but that championship year was the first time LeBron went elsewhere. I don't know if they'd win it much less reach the Finals but if they did, that's be one of the most satisfying achievements for any team and a feel good story too for sports fans.

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u/jaym1849 Celtics 9d ago

I really think it’s the biggest current issue facing the NBA. You’re spot on with the Lowry example. I remember when KD joined the 73-9 warriors and after they won the title with ease they barely celebrated. A part of winning a championship is the struggle. This current era of players joining super teams really belittles the actual value of winning a title.

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u/EarthWarping NBA 8d ago

There's certain titles where you can see how much the title means to the players, 2019 Raptors with Lowry, 2016 Cavaliers with Lebron, 2011 Mavs with Dirk, those are the ones that stick with you for just how much it means to the franchise and the city they're in.

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u/LordSauron1984 Bulls 8d ago

Even go back further look at Kobe & Shaq in 2000. Jordan in 96 or 91. The Bad Boys in 89. The struggle is what makes the highs sweet. Winning all the time is boring

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u/Any-Detective-2431 8d ago

I think Kobe’s arch is great in this situation. The dominance of his first threepeat with Shaq became boring. But him stuck with scrubs in LA in the mid 2000s, losing in 2007 in the finals and then finally winning back to backs was the perfect redemption.

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u/HeylelBen 76ers 9d ago

This 💯. There is no incentive to root for a super team, because they’re mercenaries, not home grown talent.

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u/Murderwithkindness 8d ago

Even with Kawahi Leonard, I appreciate what he did for us and don't hold a grudge for him leaving, but it's kind of hard to identify with him the way I do with Lowry or DeRozan.

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u/CelticsJ 9d ago

Never in my life did I think Charles Barkley would bring a wholesome tear to my eye, and here we are. Mr. Barkley, as a fan, I share your dream of a better NBA.

P.S. I also enjoy jalapeños on my nachos!

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u/Geoff_with_a_J Warriors 9d ago

I hope the Celtics never resort to selling nachos with pickles instead of jalapenos

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u/green_and_green23 Raptors 9d ago

Us fans have to also stop calling for loyal players to leave their teams, and stop slandering players that got no ring.

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u/Mr_VaultBoy Suns 9d ago edited 9d ago

I just want to emphasize on that, because there is just so much more to the NBA or sports in general than just winning it all, the “we believe” Warriors were special and even though they only got to the 2nd round, many fans still cherish that memory.

And obviously as a suns fan, during the Nash era even though I wanted really bad for the team to win a championship, I can still look back and see that it was really really fun to watch the team play and win playoff series or even just regular season games, obviously winning it all is better but those years still meant something and players like Steve Nash will always be appreciated by fans.

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u/GlizzanderHolyfield Lakers 9d ago

Yeah, just like people remember AI’s legendary 2001 MVP season and the run to the Finals + that iconic game 1 performance and step over. Or the Pacers/Knicks rivalry and Reggie’s clutch performances. You can go on and on too.

Damian Lillard very well might not win a championship in his career in Portland, but you can’t say that his time there wasn’t meaningful and special. Blazers fans will probably remember those playoff game winners and the other clutch moments he delivered for the rest of their lives.

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u/Hyrdoman503 9d ago

Hell yes I will for ever 0.9 against Houston

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u/BlazinDuckSkins 9d ago

What's better, 0.9 or the 30+ footer in Georges face? I went absolutely crazy after both of them.

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u/Hyrdoman503 8d ago

Same, but I was watching the houston series with a friends husband who was a big rockets honk, felt pretty awesome to watch him die inside live haha.

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u/Thor_2099 Grizzlies 9d ago

I'll always remember grit n grind and the upset over the 1 seed spurs. That'll probably be the greatest thing the grizzlies are able to achieve

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u/__hey_ 76ers 9d ago

Fans just enjoying the regular season, without hearing “can they do it in the playoffs” all year, would be great.

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u/CaptainKurls Lakers 9d ago

Well said. My favorite basketball memories growing up are the T-Mac/Yao Rockets, the Nash Suns, and the Rose Bulls teams. It was awesome seeing these great players and I’d much rather watch that era than whatever is going on these days.

Regular season isn’t even that much fun to watch anymore but these playoffs have been awesome

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u/TrainedExplains Warriors 9d ago

I just want to emphasize on that, because there is just so much more to the NBA or sports in general than just winning it all, the “we believe” Warriors were special and even though they only got to the 2nd round, many fans still cherish that memory.

I pretty much always thought it would be the highlight of my Warriors fandom. The Warriors turning into a real organization is still a bit surreal.

And obviously as a suns fan, during the Nash era even though I wanted really bad for the team to win a championship, I can still look back and see that it was really really fun to watch the team play and win playoff series or even just regular season games, obviously winning it all is better but those years still meant something and players like Steve Nash will always be appreciated by fans.

The Nash Suns may have lasted longer, but it might be your franchise's We Believe. Chris Paul seems pretty determined to bring home a chip.

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u/appasdiary Wizards 9d ago

Yep, my favorite Era for DC is still the hibachi era. Even though Arenas and the team won only 1 playoff series, it was the most exciting times for me as a Wiz fan, closely followed by peak Wall era

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u/DarkSoulsDarius Lakers 9d ago

I think it's more wild the disrespect Kobe and Duncan get even though they won as many as they did without having to construct these super teams. A lot of fans today are so hung up on efficiency they seriously just displace every other past player. You cant put these guys on those teams and they just win.

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u/OverallAd9971 9d ago

That’s a really fair point. I adore the 90s Knicks, despite not getting the chip. That would’ve been great, but it really was all about the ride.

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u/Ginsan-AK Grand Floridian 9d ago

For real. After Lebron won one for Cleveland, everyone's saying that's his best ring, on top of beating a 73-9 GSW team, he won one for his city, the team that drafted him. Would we rather watch Giannis team up with Curry Klay Dray and win 1, or would we rather watch him grow and lead his team to a ring?

KD's rings felt cheap because there were no competition for those stacked GSW team led by KD and Curry. Everyone expected them to win and they won it all.. and.. there was no excitement, let's be honest, unless you're a Warriors fan. The best moment of that playoffs was when Rockets almost beat them, or when Lebron almost dropped 50 in game 1 and almost beat them that game.

P.S. All rings are legit, including KD's, just that there's no excitement nor was it memorable as a fan watching.

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u/isomorphZeta [HOU] Montrezl Harrell 9d ago

Everyone expected them to win and they won it all.. and.. there was no excitement, let's be honest, unless you're a Warriors fan.

Ain't that the truth.

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u/ryanxpe 9d ago

Even him with nets its ruining nba cause they stacked

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u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 9d ago

Couldn't have said it better

Unfortunately this sub just relentlessly clowns on players and most of the arguments revolve around stupid ass stats, rings without watching much basketball.

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u/rice_bledsoe Suns 9d ago

i think we know exactly the kinds of fans who keep calling for loyal players to leave their teams, been getting way too bold on that front IMO

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u/totallynotliamneeson Bucks 9d ago

This is it right here. Stop making individual ring counts to be the ultimate accomplishment in a team sport. We all agree that just having a ring doesn't make you any better or worse, but we forget that when we talk about stars. Dame somehow is a worse player because he didn't win a ring? Giannis is somehow a fraud because he hasn't had a chance yet to compete for a championship? It's absurd, only one team wins it all every year and a lot can go wrong and result in your season ending prematurely.

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u/Porter2000 Hawks 9d ago

For real, can you imagine some of the takes on this sub during the six years before Jordan won a title? Hell, he was 1-9(!) in the playoffs his first three years lol. I wonder how many people would have thrown the 'empty stats' label on him?

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u/approximatelymagic [LAL] Mychal Thompson 8d ago

You don't have to wonder. Some 90s nephews had their hot takes archived.

narasimh 5/18/90

Looks like DETROIT Pistons are going to be the world champions again. Chicago can not stop Pistons. As for the MJ VS Magic, with all the talk of MJ carrying Bulls on his shoulders Bulls never won a championship. I also do not agree with the idea that bulls do not have any good players on their team. Stacey King and BJ are first round picks, Bill cartwright is a good center, scottie pippen can be a starter on any team. The problem with MJ and Bulls is, he does not have the ability to make his teammates play inspired or better (Like say, Magic does) and I think he will go down in the history of BB as a great player without a championship ring. Both Chicago and Portland are good teams, but not good enough to compete against detroit. Pheonix is the only team that can compete against Detroit. Lakers lost to a good team(A good team and not to one good player).

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u/Kn7ght Pacers 8d ago

Nephews been around since the dawn of time

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u/Porter2000 Hawks 8d ago

It... is eternal.

Thank you for digging this up. Hopefully someone will come along richer than me and slap some reddit gold on this.

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u/Konfliction Raptors 9d ago

I think the no ring thing needs to be contextualized. Cause there's windows lol and 2019 is a great example of it. Giannis of Embiid could have in theory gotten a ring, because IMO whoever got out of the East there was likely going to win it all if KD wasn't returning. But, to counter this, if your conference has a team like the Nets, or a fully healthy KD Warriors, I think the rings conversation for those teams is kind of stupid.

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u/Boomhauer_007 Raptors 9d ago edited 9d ago

Blame the max contract. Guys didn’t make super teams in his day because teams couldn’t afford it. Jordan was like 45% of the bulls cap at one point, and he rightfully wasn’t giving any of that up. With the max now it’s stupidly easy to fit all these guys on your roster, in no circumstance should a team be able to sign three top 20 players and stay under the cap with a full roster.

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u/HaitianRoulette Mavericks 8d ago

Preach!

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u/Money_dragon 9d ago

If you don’t have sports, all you have is reality, and reality sucks

Emo Chuck

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u/robman17 Mavericks 9d ago

I tried to make this argument with an ex years ago when trying to explain why I get so wrapped up in the Mavs, A&M Football and things like the World Cup, Olympics, etc.

Didn't go over very well.

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u/electricaldummy17 8d ago

Well it's an argument that makes you look bad to a potential mate. "My life sucks so I must immerse myself in a fantasy world".

Not throwing shade we all have our vices to escape from reality. I have a friend though who would never budge an inch for anyone for some of his sports teams. Now he's rolling up on being a 40 year old virgin.

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u/Mackmurphy25 Heat 9d ago

But yet all analysts do is shit on guys and question their effort for losing in the playoffs to better teams.. so what do you really want them to do lol

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u/Wuffy_RS Lakers 9d ago

Nobody's questioning Dame, nobody's questioning Luka.

The only player getting slandered so far is KP.

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u/PorSiempreJamas 9d ago

They slander Giannis. They did dismiss Booker, and Mitchel and Beal...and Westbrook, and Lebron before Miami, etc, until they get help, then suddenly they are great.

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u/GhostOf2Sushi 9d ago

I saw people the other day claiming “if you ignore personal accolades only, Tatum is honestly more impressive than Giannis”....

Giannis is slandered hard here

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u/InexorableWaffle Bucks 9d ago

Think it's a confluence of a couple main factors:

  1. His ability (or rather, relative lack thereof) to shoot the ball well consistently presents an easy target for legitimate criticism

  2. Him winning the MVP over a very polarizing player in Harden when the latter had an all-time offensive season, which leads to a good portion of Harden's fanbase calling him a fake MVP or something along those lines

  3. Him re-signing with Milwaukee rather than hitting FA as fans of the Raps, Heat, Celtics, etc. wanted, and a certain subsection of those fans being bitter and trying to say that he actually isn't good after all

  4. The Bucks having back-to-back playoff disappointments (and a rough first two games of this series) has a good number of people convinced he can't be the best option on a true contender

Not really worth being bothered by takes you see on this sub, though. Most people wouldn't give a shit about the drunken idiot at a game spouting the takes you see here, so why bother getting upset when the people saying those takes here in all likelihood aren't actually watching the game (and even if they are, are likely only doing so at a casual level without any knowledge of the game)?

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u/spideypewpew 9d ago

Haha that's like the one Mahomes post on nfl, saying if you ignore all the TDs he's pretty average

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u/egg_mugg23 [MIL] Giannis Antetokounmpo 9d ago

if you regress all of mahomes’ stats to the league average, he’s actually trash

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u/Avinse Timberwolves 9d ago

I never understood why people hate Giannis. He is literally the nicest guy in the league and is already a lock for the HoF at 26 years old

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u/GhostOf2Sushi 9d ago

at 26

And this also blows my mind that people don’t get that most legends didn’t win their first ring until 27-30. Lebron didn’t go to the heat until he was 25, and didn’t actually win a ring until he was 26. Giannis is right at the time when a lot of legends turn it around or find a way over the hump. Writing him off now is especially dumb

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u/willymoose8 [HOU] Luis Scola 9d ago

Harden got slandered every year for coming up just short against maybe the best lineup ever.

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u/epoch_fail [UTA] Joe Ingles 9d ago

Zach LaVine, De'Aaron Fox, and KAT raise their hands

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u/Neothetruth 9d ago

Facts they were on Lebron HEAVY too. Ppl seem to forget how much hype surrounded that man. Shit was suffocating

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u/stealer_of_monkeys Celtics 9d ago

I feel bad for the dude honestly, dude came into the league at 18 as possibly the most hyped player ever into his home team.

That's so much pressure for one dude to handle and somehow he not only lived up to the hype but even surpassed it. But the media only uses that as an excuse for more hype and pressure.

Every success and every failure has people talking about what it means for his legacy no wonder the dude goes so far to preserve it

He does get a shitload of money for it though so that makes me feel less bad for him ya know

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/RiggyTang Heat 9d ago

Chuck is a redditor with a tv platform

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u/Official_CIA_Account Nuggets 9d ago

I just find super teams to be boring. The Nets are amazing, but I mean, what else is to be expected? There's a serious lack of drama or meaning.

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u/-Eazy-E- Bucks 9d ago

It seriously takes away from enjoying the playoffs. Like yeah, these other series are great and all but in the end, it won't even matter due to the Nets.

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u/dr_pepper50 Magic 9d ago edited 9d ago

This is exactly how I felt during 2017.

“Wow, this Jazz/Clippers series is pretty entertaining, too bad Golden State is going to crush whoever wins.”

“Man, this is a great series between Boston and Wash- ah who cares? Cleveland will just beat the winner anyways.”

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u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 9d ago

Midway through the season: "Yeah toronto has a pretty nice record this year, too bad Lebron's going to completely take em out again"

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u/russian_space_monk Jazz 9d ago

I agree with you and this is the reason I stopped caring about college football. I loved college football as a kid. Yes, there were perennial powerhouses, but if felt like there were a handful of different teams who could claim they were the best team every year. Now, it's just Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio St. It just got boring to watch the regular season, because it means nothing now, unless you are a fan of one of 3-5 teams.

I don't want this to happen to the NBA. Last year was a great year (before COVID happened), because it felt like 10 - 12 teams had a chance of winning the championship. The start of this year felt the same way. Can the Lakers repeat? How far can KD and Kyrie take that team? Will the Bucks or 76ers exercise some demons and make a serious championship run? Can the Clippers pull it together and be the team we all think they can be? Can Luka and KP stay healthy and gel on the court? Can the Jazz, Heat, and Nuggets use their depth and win 3 or 4 playoff series?

Then the Harden trade happened, and it became: "Nets vs. the field to win the championship?" It feels like we are heading back to which of these 2 or 3 super teams will win the title, and fans of other teams can just get excited about the draft.

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u/ELITEJimHarbaugh NBA 9d ago

Does anybody like superteams? Outside of super casual fans?

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u/Prodigy195 Hawks 9d ago

Likes Superteams

  • Fans of the current super teams.
  • Casual fans (basically will become fans of whichever team is good).

Dislikes super teams

  • Fans of a team that isn't a super team but is a good team that likely won't win a title cause of the existence of superteams (i.e me for example with the current Hawks).

But if Dame and Kawhi decided to join Trae on the Hawks next season you can bet you ass I'd be all in on super teams and calling everyone who was hating a cry baby. But that just hypocrisy that I'm willing to admit.

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u/jc-f [MIA] Gary Payton 9d ago

But if Dame and Kawhi decided to join Trae on the Hawks next season you can bet you ass I'd be all in on super teams and calling everyone who was hating a cry baby. But that just hypocrisy that I'm willing to admit.

Exactly how I felt when the Big 3 were on the Heat lmao

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u/methshin Raptors 9d ago

National treasure.

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u/Turbulent_ADLBJ 9d ago

I don’t mind super teams but I do prefer duos and was looking forward to the next couple years of that LeBron AD, KD Kyrie, Kawhi PG, Curry and Klay.

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u/lemonpepperlarry 9d ago

KD heard you were having fun and decided it was time to take the hardest road again.

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u/Just2_Stare_at_Stars Trail Blazers 9d ago

Hardenest Road

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u/oviedofuntimes Suns 9d ago

He wakes up at 8 am everyday, I dont know how he does it.

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u/SoulofWakanda 9d ago

Jokic and Murray too

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u/3GreekFreak4 Bucks 9d ago

How could you not mind them? That’s essentially atleast 2-3 years that your team (unless it’s the superteam) has a very small chance to do anything in the playoffs. It’s annoying, if anything I think teams like this should only be allowed one season together.

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u/Iusethistopost Bucks 9d ago

I wouldn’t mind this nets team as much if they somehow couldnt find space on theirs roster for three superstars AND make a bunch of mid season additions of Blake and LMA for free. Like if you have a roster with James Harden and Kevin Durant you should have to fill out the rest with 2-way guys

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u/actual_yellow_bag Mavericks 9d ago

That's why player max's suck. Let teams pay whatever they want for stars and suffer for it.

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u/nice_remark 9d ago

don't forget:

  • Embiid + Simmons
  • Tatum + Brown
  • Westbrook + Beal
  • Dame + CJ
  • Zion + Ingrahm
  • Giannis + Jrue

That's 1/3 of the teams listed with a nice dynamic duo. It would make the league a lot more balanced if they somehow could implement a rule to only allow for duos. Coaching + front office moves would be so crucial to round out the roster.

Not to mention that duos were appeared to be more accepted in the past as opposed to now where you need as much All-NBA talent as possible per roster

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u/asentientgrape [WAS] John Wall 9d ago

Damn, what did Khris do?

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u/-Eazy-E- Bucks 9d ago

I don't care if I sound like a salty Bucks fan that's just bitching and moaning but these super teams legitimately make the league less enjoyable to watch. Does anyone actually believe the Nets aren't winning it all?

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u/apez- Raptors 9d ago

Suns in 6. CP3 gonna hit the dagger over Harden then pinch his nipples and whisper "I told you so"

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u/wannabebutta 9d ago

His own nips or Harden's? Cuz I'm down either way.

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u/redarxx Raptors 9d ago

God I would love it if the suns win it all, cp3 deserves it and booker is absolutely shredding

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u/Buttcake8 Hawks 9d ago

Let's hope soo!

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u/504090 Thunder 9d ago

Nah I agree. And it’s definitely not a bitterness/saltiness thing, it’s more of a preference some fans have. Playoff basketball is less entertaining when it’s predictable. To me, it would be preferable if the east and west were wide open every year.

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u/boenwip Raptors 9d ago

I’ve barely managed to sit through a whole Nets game unless the other team is fighting back in the 4th cause it’s so boring. That’s why I’m enjoying watching the West so much more this year. Every game is wide open

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u/hankbaumbachjr Bulls 9d ago

Me too, Chuck.

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u/Degausser89 9d ago

Shout out to Chuck for showing Chicago some love even though we have nothing to do with this topic.

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u/Carroms 8d ago

From Wiki, "During the 1996 offseason, Charles Barkley was traded from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Mark Bryant, and Chucky Brown. Barkley chose Houston specifically because he hoped to win an NBA Championship with the team". He went to a team that had already won two rings and joined Hakeem and Clyde. They were a SUPER TEAM.

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u/PnG_e 9d ago

It has more to do with changes to the CBA than KD and Lebron.

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u/MiniChocolateDonuts [CHI] Derrick Rose 9d ago

Could you elaborate on this

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

I'm not the original poster, but here's my understanding and some NBA history:

Back in Barkley's day, there was a salary cap but no max contract to limit how much a player could make. Also stars could re-sign with the team that drafted them and go over the league's cap. These factors led to MJ making over $30 million per year in his final two seasons as a Bull, more than the whole salary cap and more than the rest of the team combined. Guys like Magic and Ewing were also making more than 50% of the soft cap. You can see why this would limit superstars from teaming up if they were also interested in the biggest payday.

This quote from Barkley is pretty ironic because he essentially tried to form an early super team with Hakeem and Drexler (and later Pippen) in Houston, but it was only possible because they were all past their primes and he was making less than previous years (until his final season). Same concept with Karl Malone and Payton joining the Lakers to ring chase. Once the max contract got established and the cap kept rising, it actually became easier to get superstars together in their prime because they weren't going to literally take up the whole cap.

Here's some references I used:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/salary-cap-history.html

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/michael-jordan-made-bank-during-the-bulls-last-dance/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bulls/ct-michael-jordan-salary-cap-20200516-ttq25ma7jzaajbfmbjoxihns54-story.html

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u/Iusethistopost Bucks 9d ago

Honestly there’s reasons to keep caps in place, and I’m sure the players union has hashed this out before, but it also does artificially deflate a guy like Hardens value.

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u/JustBigChillin Thunder 9d ago

The cap itself isn’t the problem, having max contracts with no real incentive to stay with the same team is the main issue the NBA has

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u/chem9dog Timberwolves 9d ago edited 8d ago

I never really cared about “super teams” until the nets this year. I keep hearing people say the nets only get hate because of jealousy, but as a wolves fan I never hated the Celtics,heat, or warriors out of jealousy. Hell as a wolves fan I’m pretty much jealous of every team, so I never hate teams for that reason, I know my team will never ever be a super team and I’ve just appreciated that. The nets this year though are different from past super teams in my eyes… it just feels lame knowing all the playoffs this season don’t matter cause the nets are going to win the title regardless. their roster is so good and so deep, not only does it just feel unfair, but it makes it almost boring knowing no other team even stands the slightest chance to win a title. I’ll probably die before my wolves ever win a title, so it’s not about jealousy, it’s about feeling like the playoffs are a mere formality with zero excitement, the end feels predetermined.

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u/Smarkysmarkwahlberg 9d ago

Chuck isn't wrong. This post makes me love Dirk Nowitzki even more.

Some of you may be too young to remember before 2011. Before then, Dirk's legacy was that of a choke artist. He got clowned on, and clowned on hard.

Dirk was the guy who blew a 2-0 series lead in the 2006 NBA Finals. Only the third time that had ever happened. Dirk was seen as undeserving of his lone MVP, as people thought Steve Nash should have won for a third year in a row. To make matters worse, the year he wins MVP, the Mavs get knocked out in the first round to an 8th seed Golden State Warriors. I remember Sports Illustrated using a cartoon trophy of Dirk choking shortly thereafter in one of their articles.

Did he leave? Did he ring chase? Did he make a superteam? No, he stayed in Dallas, and toughed it out as the team's franchise player. In 2011, he had one final crack at it. Plays brilliantly the whole series. In the series clinching game, he has an off night, but for once his teammates come through.

Just like that, his entire aura of being choke artist is gone. He's now remembered as one of the best foreign born players ever. As one of the best power forwards ever. And for having of the best fadeaways ever. One ring does that for a player.

I'm gonna make a bold statement, but fuck it, its warranted: That was the most legitimate ring of the last decade.

It was the best player in franchise history leading the franchise to it's only championship. Leading Jason Terry to his only championship. Leading Jason Kidd to his only championship. Leading Peja Stojakovic to his only championship. Leading Shawn Marion to his only championship. Leading Tyson Chandler to his only championship.

And they beat the inaugural fucking superteam to do it. Durant can win five more rings, and none will be as meaningful as that.

TL;DR: respect to all players who stick it out with one franchise. Extra kudos to Dirk for somehow getting it done.

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u/SWchibullswolverine [SAS] Tim Duncan 8d ago

As a Spurs fan, I agree with everything you said

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u/WackyThoughtz 8d ago

This 100%. Dirk’s ring weighs heavier than almost all other.

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