r/LeopardsAteMyFace May 04 '21

Its the ciiiiiiiircle of pain REMOVED: Rule 4

https://i.redd.it/xv9b29pqa4x61.jpg
26k Upvotes

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u/jbertrand_sr May 04 '21

It's the same principle as the Farmers who voted for far right immigration policies crying that they can't get any immigrants to come and pick their crops for pennies on the dollar...

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Very true. I'm in Georgia. ICE raided here in 2019.

Suddenly farmers can't get their crops picked, sorted, hauled, etc?

When conservatives tell you that "they" (immigrants) want to take your jobs, they don't mean the jobs you actually had or want.

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u/skintigh May 04 '21

When conservatives tell you that "they" (immigrants) want to take your jobs, they don't mean the jobs you actually had or want.

I don't think they care. They just want to hear that all the problems in their life are somebody else's fault. Preferably some scary, brown stranger's fault.

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u/NoCurrency6 May 04 '21

You’ve just described how the Republican Party has been operating for decades now

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u/vlasvilneous May 04 '21

Is... is this a shock to people? Are people really shocked by this?

I feel like Im taking crazy pills!

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u/tyrico May 04 '21

I hear you but keep in mind there are people of all ages on here, many of which are just learning for the first time how fucked up the world can be

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u/Mrpoodlekins May 04 '21

It doesn't help that some of us are surrounded by boomer/conservative talking points growing up. I only saw what was really happening in this country when I turned 18 with guys like Jon Stewart being labeled "socialistas comemierdas".

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u/WintersMoonLight May 04 '21

god, i wish he was still doing the daily show. It would have been hilarious af during the Trump years.

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u/PixelatedPooka May 04 '21 edited May 05 '21

Here is my heartfelt, saccharine opinion: Yeah, but I believe he has already done so much for us. He needed that farm and a good and healing place to keep his sanity. Especially while constantly continuing to fight Congress’ bullshit and corruption.

It seems unbelievable to me that the representatives and senators that gave fatuous lip service to the first responders that rushed into danger during the largest (terror) attack on our soil are not being held to account by the voters and party members that also claim to back the blue, the firemen firefighters the national guard, other armed forces and all the other people that risk there lives for common Americans every damn day. How can they avoid the debt we all owe to the 911 First Responders and their families? How can we as a nation not cover thier medical bills until thier deaths. I feel like we owe them far more than that, but isn’t that the very least we can do?

Dealing with the harshness of the reality of where our Legislators consider the sacrifice of those women and men has to weigh heavily on Mr. Stewart. And I certainly am selfish, and wish he were back, I think he deserves all the peace he can grab.

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u/WintersMoonLight May 04 '21

yeah that's fair, he was going to be good for the country in either case, just a mild fantasy where we could clone a mentally and physically refreshed version of him and he could do both.

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u/GenderNeutralBot May 04 '21

Hello. In order to promote inclusivity and reduce gender bias, please consider using gender-neutral language in the future.

Instead of firemen, use firefighters.

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u/artspar May 04 '21

I get what you mean, but everyone's got their own social bubble. There are people out there who simply havent had to view life in a way tbats different from the other 50 people in their tiny town in the middle of nowhere

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u/FwibbFwibb May 04 '21

And then if you hurt the bad people, everything will work itself out.

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u/Spinner1975 May 04 '21

You'll feel good about yourself if you help us hurt them. We'll tell you that they're bad people so you can feel even better about it, but you know full well that they're innocent.

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u/CanuckPanda May 04 '21

And once all the bad people are gone, I’ll be blamed!

No, wait...

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u/fatboyfat1981 May 04 '21

See also: Brexit

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u/hack5amurai May 04 '21

Alot of the problems in their life aren't their fault. They are the result of conditions in this country and their area. They form these positions based on a lifetime of propoganda focused at them and everyone they know.

On the other side of the coin, you blame them for this countries ills for the same reason and thats all by design to ignore the corruption of our government and elites on both sides of the aisle.

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u/SonicSlothz May 04 '21

"Immigrants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them!"

-Moe Sizlack

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Ever notice that they don't check qualifications on a European/Australian resume, but there are tons of Latinos/South Asians who have college training or even doctorates (from their home countries), and still work minimum wage jobs?

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u/_PrimalKink_ May 04 '21

The tendency to blame all of one's problems on others or a mysterious shadow organization is a trait most every human shares. Skin color means nothing.

You can see this in almost every area of society. People appear to have a compulsion to blame problems resulting from their own action/inaction on something/someone they know cannot be verified or disputed. Overcoming this urge is what seperates you from the general population.

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u/FwibbFwibb May 04 '21

And then if you hurt the bad people, everything will work itself out.

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u/your_spatial_lady May 04 '21

Misread as spicy instead of scary... still worked out.

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u/Alreadyhaveone May 04 '21

People don’t want to do the jobs for $6 an hour...

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u/MyohMy1137 May 04 '21

I mean there’s nothing wrong with securing our borders. America is a country of immigrants but that doesn’t mean that every single person should be allowed in with no vetting. If anything we should secure our border AND make it easier to immigrate legally.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

We could absolutely do that. But it would require the shitty parts of the government to acknowledge their wrongs and let go of using racial stereotypes and lies.

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u/6362252730 May 04 '21

Haha everything about that video was amazing from the local law commercial for “THE HAMMER” to the opening where the said farmers we complaining about having to work out a picking schedule to accommodate the legal pickers that have to be brought in and then sent back home again. To just a bunch of old white Georgia male farmers in a room bitching about not being able to just be awful and in no way accommodating to the Mexican slave labor they had in the old days. Then expecting their senator to clean it all up and go back to DC to fix it.

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u/Le_Rex May 04 '21

Ah, Southern agricultural businesses and being unable to function or make a profit without minorities doing all the actual work for them while being horrifically abused and exploited.

Tale as old as time.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Heh. David Perdue didn't fix shit. Neither did the Secretary of Agriculture, his cousin, Sonny Perdue. Now they're both out of a job.

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u/6362252730 May 05 '21

Of course he didn’t, what could he do? The whole party has been screaming about not wanting mexicans forever. Is he going to say, “ hey guys, I think we were wrong. It ended up hurting my constituents. You think we could just back track all this scapegoating real quick and the illegals back out there for exploitation?” And everyone would just fall in line?

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 05 '21

They never will. Admitting culpability is not going to happen.

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u/Honztastic May 04 '21

Sometimes they do.

Manufacturing, construction, factory jobs used to be great unionized jobs that people could provide for a family.

Until Reagonimcs bullshit and NAFTA type trade nonsense gutted Unions and flooded those jobs with unskilled and semi skilled labor pools that made them no longer attractive options.

They arent coming to take your job. They came and took it 30 years ago. And now we are all so fucked by the economy, we rely on that super cheap price of goods thats carried on the backs of illegal labor.

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u/Kimmalah May 04 '21

And now we are all so fucked by the economy, we rely on that super cheap price of goods thats carried on the backs of illegal labor.

Yes, everybody is all gung-ho about kicking out illegal immigrants and everything "Made in the USA." Until they find out it means higher prices that they can't afford on the shitty wages that almost everyone makes.

People don't ever make this connection - they want everything to be insanely cheap, but they want to eliminate all the things that made those low prices possible. While also not wanting to raise wages that might make those higher prices more affordable. It's just like the people who don't care if their infrastructure is falling apart around them, so long as they pay low low taxes.

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u/Honztastic May 04 '21

Id rather pay a dollar more if we all get the fucking pay raises that CEOs stole from us since the 70s.

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u/zaine77 May 04 '21

It started as soon as unions did the government is rarely on the side of the people. It wants the poor and middle class to pay for the rich to get richer if it didn’t we wouldn’t be having these conversations.

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u/docmedic May 05 '21 edited May 05 '21

You'd be paying 33%-200% more, not a buck. And the quality of the item will actually drop. Because NAFTA and co make things more efficient, i.e. less waste.

The path forward is retraining people and educating the new generations for higher paying jobs. No one really wants to drop their standard of living to essentially stunt the US economy and fall behind countries like China.

It's not easy, and people will fall through the cracks, but it's impossible to move backwards, which would cause massive unemployment as the US is no longer competitive.

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u/Honztastic May 05 '21

Not even fucking close, or burgers in CA and NY would be 30 dollars.

But Ill still take that raise regardless, and pay more if it supports Americans with liveable wages.

0

u/docmedic May 05 '21 edited May 06 '21

It probably would be $12 fast food burgers, on top of groceries being expensive, and it won’t give Americans livable wages. The good old days happened because America was rich selling shit to war torn Europe and the rest of the world. They’re not going to buy American goods with competitive goods produced across the world without war. We’d end up with the same collapse in 1930 due to overproduction of featureless expensive goods and under consumption since the world wouldn’t care much about made in USA.

America is just not suited for 1960s jobs when the 2020s world makes it faster and cheaper, no matter how you play with tariff sliders.

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u/Honztastic May 06 '21

Again, we are already doing this in New York and California and the burgers arent more expensive and there isnt widespread unemployment from firing the work forces for robots.

Youre just wrong on this.

The golden age of the 50s happened because of large income increases and an expanding middle class that started buying and demanding more goods and services, that then employed more people to make those goods and services and provided increased wages to those people and so on. And that was with a workplace now employing women with the men, so there was a labor glut.

The 30s happened from tax breaks for the wealthy, wall street speculation, and over protectionist subsidies.

This economic argument isnt a debate, its solved.

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u/DeanCutlet May 04 '21

You don't realize that people can't afford the "cheap" goods right now even with illegal and legal immigrants here. The system has screwed everyone, which includes the American consumers/workers and the exploited legal/illegal immigrants. The American economy has been slowly siphoning the wealth and prosperity of the people until we will all be in desperation except for a chosen few. It's going to get ugly until the economy is massively realigned and overhauled.

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u/ethanlan May 04 '21

Dude, paying workers a fair wage isnt going to raise the cost of goods that much even now. If everyone in a company got paid what they deserve goods would be the same as they are now. They have to hire low wage workers because they help mitigate the absolute greed from the upper levels.

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u/DrinkBlueGoo May 04 '21

There is no economic law requiring wages to raise the cost of goods, but you can't actually say raising wages will not raise the cost of goods. You assume raising wages will be offset by decreasing management pay and corporate greed, but it is more likely that corporate greed will remain and the consumers will pay the difference. That's not to say that wages shouldn't be increased, some inflation would be good for us, but unless you control prices, you can't declare what prices will do.

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u/sdaidiwts May 04 '21

My roommate was telling me about her soda stream and how it reduces waste, yet she receives at least 5 packages a week and has more stuff than she can manage. People are oblivious. We all live a hypocritical life to a degree, some are more aware than others.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/Honztastic May 05 '21

It used to just be the cost of stamps

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u/DeanCutlet May 05 '21

Maybe these people should pay an annual fee for the "free delivery" and call it Amazon Prime perhaps?

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u/Pls_submit_a_ticket May 04 '21

Free market = cheap goods Free market = higher average wage Government arbitrarily setting the value of things in the market, regulating markets into the dirt, taxing goods/small businesses even further into the dirt = more expensive goods, wage stagnation, bloated government budget thats always in deficit, crumbling infrastructure.

Perhaps if we spent less money overseas trying to be the world police/charity, we’d have better infrastructure and lower taxes on the businesses that provide the majority jobs in the US. Small businesses, 64% of new jobs created annually.

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u/DeanCutlet May 05 '21

Less regulation creates monopolies and Walmarts which destroy small businesses. The free market eats people up.

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u/Pls_submit_a_ticket May 05 '21

This is the worst place for these conversations. But the moral of my story is small businesses = good. Obviously you cant have a completely free market. We had it and it resulted in a ton of wealth. But it was dirt poor people that cant feed themselves and extremely rich people. The disparity was wayyy worse than today. But you also can’t tax and regulate small businesses into the dirt

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u/SprinklesFancy5074 May 04 '21

Immigrants didn't steal your job.

Corporations took your job and shipped it to Malaysia.

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u/Honztastic May 05 '21

Its both.

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u/zSprawl May 04 '21

Or we just offshore it. No one has to “come and take” anything.

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u/rusty_flintlock May 04 '21

Right? The fault lies with corporations and the members of government in their pockets, not people just trying to earn a living for their family and taking opoortunities as they come.

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u/Fair_Appointment_361 May 04 '21

Wow it's almost like government is structured to serve corperations instead of the people /s

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u/rusty_flintlock May 04 '21

But haven't you heard? Corporations -are- people!

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

Having to explain to a friend like a year younger than myself that that is ACTUALLY a thing was insane. They literally couldn't believe the courts said that.

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u/rusty_flintlock May 04 '21

Still waiting for the day they jail a corporation for 5 years for "voting illegally." Only then can it truly be said that they're people...

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

Oh the day it happens I swear I'll go dancing in the street. Shouldn't be a "person" without the ability to face the consequences of personhood.

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u/MegaGrimer May 04 '21

Immigrants aren’t taking our jobs. They’re being given jobs over Americans so their employers can pay them less

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u/DeanCutlet May 04 '21

Not much semantic difference, eh? But I get the point. Don't blame the people in relative desperation (immigrants), but blame the ones giving the opportunities just to make a buck or to survive in a low margin race-to-the-bottom environment. Also, blame the officials that are not protecting the people with better immigration policy, enforcement, and business regulation.

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u/Honztastic May 05 '21

Thats the same thing.

Its BOTH. The employers using that labor, and the labor pool. Its not one or the other.

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u/upsidedownbackwards May 04 '21

Many of the unions that are left only cater to their older members and screw over the younger generations. I'm totally pro-union in theory, but after dealing with the MTA, Teamsters, and International Union of Operating Engineers I've seen how easy it is for them to be corrupted by the same older generations that are screwing us everywhere else.

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u/_steven42_ May 04 '21

Manufacturing and factory jobs have been sent over seas not taken by immigrants.

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u/Honztastic May 06 '21

Mexico isnt overseas. NAFTA

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u/rhenthar May 04 '21

I wonder how the quality of houses built in the 60s and 70s compares to houses built in the 80s.

Cars?

Hell, pick anything.

One thing is for sure. Quality went down, profit went up. What’s the problem? /s

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u/captainbluemuffins May 04 '21

it all comes back round to reagan, huh

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u/Honztastic May 06 '21

Id actually blame a lot more on some legislative decisions from the 70s and Nixon era policy that cascaded.

But yeah, Reagan was a terrible shift in politics. Shifted the country so far right that democrats had to become neoliberal, republican lite to succeed with Clinton. Its been downhill since, and will continue until a pardigm shift.

Bernie should have been it, but the Dems kneecapped him twice.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Until Reagonimcs bullshit and NAFTA type trade nonsense gutted Unions and flooded those jobs with unskilled and semi skilled labor pools that made them no longer attractive options.

My mom was UFCW. She worked for Brown Shoe factory in the 80s. Then when the union actually asked for something, Brown decided to close the factory instead of listening to the union.

It's what I think about when I think of Republicans and their small business/small government ideas. It's not what they really mean.

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u/chrasb May 04 '21

i forgot the comedian, but he did a joke about "maybe if someone who has been in the country for a week, who cant speak english takes you job... maybe thats on you?"

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Exactly. None of those people ever think it's their lack of skills, lack of effort, numerous terminations, etc.

The xenophobia is a mark for those that can't cope with their lives.

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u/Grognak_the_Orc May 04 '21

That farmer thing pisses me off. "Wahh why won't people work for a couple weeks a year for what amounts to minimum wage in many states with no benefits?" because "Wahh we can't import cheap migrant labor". Fuck off. The US Government is pumping out subsidies hand over fist for industrial farmers, how about pay people a living fucking wage and then you'll get workers

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

And it tickles me to look on the Georgia Department of Labor website and see those listings have been there for months, if not years.

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u/AcidRose27 May 04 '21

This isn't even the first time. You think they'd learn.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

You know they won't. It's the cognitive dissonance of not wanting to hire immigrants, but the people they want to hire (white) won't work for the low wages, or in the heat/cold/rain.

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u/AcidRose27 May 05 '21

I don't even think they want to hire white people, they want to hire the cheapest person, which happens to be easily exploitable, illegal immigrants. But at the polls they're too busy thinking about those same illegal immigrants using their tax dollars in any way (even though they likely aren't) because they're convinced they're sucking the government teat (because they're simultaneously the laziest border hoppers here to take advantage, but also the best damn peanut pickers they've ever hired but they can get away with paying them $5 per lb of peanuts picked.)

And also they're racist as fuck and they spend all their free time watching oan or whatever the fuck Russian news channel propaganda machine it is.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 05 '21

Exactly. But they can't say that aloud, so they go with "they're here illegally".

Odd, when they don't mind when Europeans do it.

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u/AcidRose27 May 05 '21

My husband is a white immigrant and it's amazing how often people will just start telling him their thoughts on immigrants and want his. It's surreal to watch, it's got to be even more insane to experience first hand.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 05 '21

Funny how that works, isn't it?

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u/Illustrious_Caps May 04 '21

AND if a immigrant comes to country and actually builds a profitable business why would you want him to leave ?

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u/ShichitenHakki May 04 '21

Reminds me of The Onion article of CEOs struggling to find jobs because immigrants were willing to work for $600,000 instead of $1,000,000.

It's absurd but the leap of logic isn't as far off from the mind set of a lot of these America First folk.

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u/ChillAzDude May 04 '21

In Arizona about ten years ago the Republicans were pushing their anti immigrant policy like crazy with support from the large farms and then they were suprised when it came time to harvest they could not find anyone to pick it so basically several fields of cabbage and lettuce were left to rot in the sun.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Here in Georgia, it was literally an overnight thing. One day, these folks went to work and were picked up, and their kids were still in school and didn't know.

For all we know, those kids could still be at the border.

As for some of the detained women....sterilization.

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u/ChillAzDude May 04 '21

The bastards out here did the same thing as well, it is just terrible, a bunch of little kids went home only to find they didnt have a home anymore and they were all alone. That is disgraceful behaviour anyway you look at it.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Agreed. All around, unnecessary and cruel.

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u/Sleyvin May 04 '21

Feels on par with what's happening with Brexit. Farmer and fishers were extremely vocal for the Brexit.

Both industry are failing big time since January because they can't find people to sell their product to.

Between new taxes, new reglementation, nobody want to buy British product anymore.

Congrats guys, you won, you're freed from that pesky EU market and can now compete with China and India on the world stage, good luck.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

The saddest part is, they not only pissed themselves out of the European trade market, but they also gave a bunch of political panel shows years of material. /s

Kidding aside, it's weird to watch the US and the UK mirroring each other in these poorly-thought-out trade agreements (mostly mended by Biden now, on the US end), xenophobia, nationalism, etc. It's like we are watching our parent act out, and we behave just like them.

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u/Sleyvin May 04 '21

I mean, it's not surprising the UK to follow the US since they elected a Trump wannabe.

It honestly sucks for so many reason, but I can't help but feeling a sense of pleasure by thinking "told you" everytime I see a new post Brexit headline.

The "expat" British crisis have been extremely funny to watch unfold.

The sad part is all the people who were against are also hurt.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

The scariest part for me, an American who keeps up a little with British politics, is when Farage started UKIP, got the ball rolling there, then he came here and campaigned with Trump.

Seeing the way that UKIP went from a tiny party to gaining seats, then morphing into the Brexit party (partially), then Brexit actually happening was scary to watch.

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u/EvilBosch May 04 '21

Immigrants don't "take" anyone's job. The jobs are given to whoever will do it the cheapest by the farm owners. Don't blame desperate people for being willing to accept desperation-level wages, blame the arseholes who are not prepared to pay fair wages.

Capitalists love to sing about how wonderful the free market is, until the free market signals an increase in labor costs.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

Capitalists love to sing about how wonderful the free market is, until the free market signals an increase in labor costs.

Exactly. And they specifically pick people who will work for less, then tell the rest of the world these are highly sought after jobs.

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u/Queasy-Zebr May 04 '21

I know your intentions are good but this argument is racist. It’s the same as when we had slavery and slave owners said “who will pick the crops?”

Check your white washed privilege.

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u/colourmeblue May 04 '21

It's not racist or even an argument for or against anything. It's a statement of fact.

Farmers utilize (abuse) immigrants for cheap labor because they don't want to pay minimum wage. They also vote for policies that shrink the pool of immigrants, especially those willing to work extremely long hours under the table for low wages, then complain about their inability to find workers to exploit.

It's not right and no one is defending them or the practice but it's true.

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u/GeniusOfLove74 May 04 '21

It IS racist.

That's my point.

They don't want to hire people from other (Latin) countries. They want to hire people who look just like them (usually white), who won't work for the low wages.

It's not just racist. It's also the cognitive dissonance of what they say they want, what they actually want to pay, versus what they actually do about it.

Note: I didn't argue about the racism. It's just a fact, and it does need to be worked on.

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u/kanna172014 May 04 '21

Farmers are not against illegal immigrants. They are against illegal immigrants getting protection from the government. That way they can treat them any way they want, pay them slave wages and then hold the threat of deportation over their heads, something they can't do if they are given protected status.

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u/Kimmalah May 04 '21

Yes, in the end the problem is that our whole system is built on a foundation of extreme exploitation. If that doesn't change, pretty much anything else we do will just be a band-aid at best.

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u/SprinklesFancy5074 May 04 '21

Yep. And often not pay them at all ... and if they complain about that, threaten to call ICE on them.

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u/megustaALLthethings May 04 '21

Lets all just drop the pretense that they don’t just want slave labor. That’s ALL they ever have wanted.

We beat around the bush with saying slave/poverty/starvation wages, treat them how them like property, etc etc. SLAVES! That’s it, oh they get suddenly flustered and act like no thats not it... while cussing you out for calling them out.

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u/kanna172014 May 04 '21

True. They miss the days when they could keep black people as slaves and want nothing more than to return to those days.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

The pay for seasonal farm work is actually fairly good. The major reasons US workers won't do it is because the work is strictly seasonal, and in remote locations. We have a hand to mouth economy, you can't survive as a working class American with seasonal work, and we have abysmal public transport. So you need the rare unicorn of a worker who has enough money to own a car, and not enough money to refuse seasonal work. Your basically just looking at high schoolers and college kids, and that's not a big enough pool to draw from.

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u/TormundSandwichbane May 04 '21

Honestly I used to want to bridge the gap and start a conversation. Now I’m like “fuck those idiots. Maybe if you start feeling the consequences of your actions you might just learn something...maybe.”

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u/Davillanti May 04 '21

Lmao just like brexit

1

u/Far-Car May 04 '21

That would have been a much better post than OP.

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u/bobbyd77 May 04 '21

The irony in that honestly cracks me up whenever I think about it.

1

u/CaffeineSippingMan May 04 '21

I was listening to NPR and they had a farmer crying he could not hire cheap american help. Then explained how he was using immigrant workers and paying them over minimum wage and went on to say he supplied housing.

Not sure if I was missing something but I could not find it online.

If anyone knows the link, I would love to have it.

1

u/grrrrreat May 04 '21

but but but they should immigrate legally to be paid under the table illegal wags!

1

u/Alreadyhaveone May 04 '21

Are you saying far right immigration policies are stopping workers from being exploited? That sounds like a good thing.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21 edited May 05 '21

[deleted]

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u/LairdDeimos May 04 '21

Sounds like someone doesn't understand how unemployment actually works.