r/GlobalOffensive May 17 '21

Condensed Info of NIP vs Anonymo situation Discussion

Gonna try and just quickly put down a cumulation of actual facts we've been given so far, to help with filing through useless, baseless and uneducated misinformation being spread all over reddit + twitter. (My own thoughts are included but have been separated, I think after looking at some of the comments this must be mentioned, please do not be angry with the fact I included any 3rd party voice to this message) :D

  1. NIP vs Anonymo match was paused during the first map, with the score at 1:1, due to reported spikes in loss%, affecting their ability to play.
  2. Both teams' players offered a rescheduling, but Flashpoint admins did not.
  3. Instead NIP were offered to a) play out the game or b) forfeit the match

Gonna quickly add my own thoughts on this - NIP only have 1 option at this point, under their own best interests, in that if they still win they're through and if they lose they get put into the same situation as the alternative choice (simple prisoner's dilemma situation).

4) NIP choose to play out the game, eventually winning the first map (16:3) before losing the following two maps, meaning Anonymo won the series 2-1.

5) As reportedly per a Flashpoint ruling, NIP's management choose to file a complaint to Flashpoint in regard to the competitive integrity of the match, providing evidence that the loss% issues were not caused by them at that they had no reasonable way of solving the situation.

6) Flashpoint releases a statement suggesting the match should be rescheduled, after concluding their investigation and admitting to the error being on their end.

Just want to quickly add to this - NIP's management have only gone via the rulebook that all teams participating in the event have signed to. Therefore, it is futile to claim the same wouldn't happen for Anonymo, for if they provided the same situation to Flashpoint, then it would be an obligation for Flashpoint to investigate, and the same conclusion would have occurred.

People are getting mixed up into thinking this is a situation of the big company trying to abuse it's power to overturn rulings in its favour. In reality the situation is that of a big company arguing that something was unfair and that by the rulings of the event they should be permitted a rematch.

7) Anonymo, as of now, have refused to take on the rematch, leading to the postponing of the originally planned schedule. Their management have also gone on to say they are being forced into an unfair rematch.

On the topic of the situation being unfair for Anonymo. If they are scared of the rematch, it is for one thing and that is the possibility of losing the match. People think it is unfair to take away from them their victory... However, if one thinks about it a little deeper:- Anonymo won a match in which NIP were disadvantaged

- NIP then proved that the disadvantage was not their fault.

- In the interest of competitive integrity: A new game should be played to determine who truly is the better team.

- If Anonymo would not be the better team under a competitively balanced environment, then they do not deserve to be placed above NIP...

- Therefore Anonymo is not being "f'd over" or messed with in any way, they are ever going from having won a game where they comparatively had the advantage to playing a game in which there is no external advantage for either team anymore!

0 Upvotes

322

u/RekrabAlreadyTaken Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

If you're gonna put a culmination of facts don't put your own opinions in there

84

u/xGuys May 17 '21

Man dosnt add sources and is writing his opinion, what a joke.

7

u/VShadow1 Complexity Gaming Fan May 17 '21

He marked out where his opinions were and what was facts. Whats wrong with that?

29

u/anthonyde726 FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

cause the information is biased lol

7

u/VShadow1 Complexity Gaming Fan May 17 '21

How? Everything he listed as facts is 100% true.

9

u/nad-iwnl- May 17 '21

And if you list all the facts explaining one viewpoint and none which explain the other, you give people a skewed view of the information. Not claiming OP has done this, but trying to say a purely factual argument can still be biased.

-5

u/VShadow1 Complexity Gaming Fan May 17 '21

Ok? But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

8

u/birjolaxew May 17 '21

... Yes it does. You were challenging the claim that "the information is biased" by saying "How? Everything he listed as facts is 100% true". As /u/nad-iwnl- explained, 100% true facts can still be biased information. That has everything to do with what you were talking about.

1

u/nad-iwnl- May 17 '21

This is exactly right.

1

u/whensmahvelFGC May 17 '21

This post should have more up votes than the OP

79

u/fookhar Astralis Fan May 17 '21

Please don't post stuff like this wtihout adding sources for your claims about the situation. No one should just take something like this at face value.

27

u/MindlessVersion May 17 '21

For People saying imagine this, imagine that bla bla. How do you judge that imaginary situation is equal to current drama? simply you can't equate the current situation to an imaginary situation.
One should not say that if this happened in this sport then the result would be this, So lets do this here.

It is a fucking CSGO Tournament with it's own set of rules. All things should be done according to the set of rules(which all teams signed to follow).

61

u/zollverein123 May 17 '21

What should also be mentioned is that during the long tech pause Anonymo management (not the players) pushed for NiP to be disqualified (which they had every right to do because it was in the ruleset that every team agreed to).

29

u/VShadow1 Complexity Gaming Fan May 17 '21

It was actually not in the ruleset. The Anonymo guy was misinterpreting the rule. The rule applies to teams being late not technical issues.

9

u/costryme May 17 '21

So many people not understanding this, when it's basic comprehension. Drives me crazy.

5

u/CradleX May 17 '21

This is what NIP management said, not a proven fact I believe.

6

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

Screensshots of the conversation have leaked, so yes this is proven.

-1

u/xGuys May 17 '21

In those screenshots they do not push for them to be disqualified

16

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

How do you interperate those screenshots then? They are basically saying give US the win or start the match imo

-7

u/xGuys May 17 '21

Hes listing the different penalties that the rules state. None of them are lose the game, one is forfeit a map, that's the worst possible thing. So not disqualification.

22

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

He is pressuring them to start the game, even tho problems have not been solved, holy shit.

17

u/NOD___ May 17 '21

Many people can’t read between the lines

9

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

Noticed..

-2

u/nicke9494 May 17 '21

You clearly don't know what the word "disqualified" means.

16

u/wowdeep Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

This is my take as well. Tbh pretty embarrassed by the so called esport journalists and how they jump to the conclusion that will create the most drama.

9

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

I catch every episode of BTN

yeah, thats the mistake. I used to watch most episodes a few years ago, but eventually you realize how full of shit both of them are whenever they have any kind of stake or bias.
In this case RL hates NiP, so everything that comes out of his mouth/fingers is just the most anti-NiP stance you could possibly take.
case in point: Him calling it "phantom packet loss" after confirming the packet loss being real himself. Sure, the phrase "phantom packet loss" is not clearly defined and therefore you can technically claim some bullshit reason to call it that way, but anyone reading it and not knowing better will assume it refers to packet loss that wasnt actually there. And nobody can tell me RL, a journalist and native speaker, wouldnt be aware of that.

-5

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

2

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

I very heavily doubt that to be honest. But I havent been following CS closely for quite some time, so maybe its true.
It would make this case even worse tho, because then he is just stirring up drama for no reason but attention.

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2

u/suriel- Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

it's almost like journalists .. should be investigating and such, and not spew even more bullshit against the wind by presenting their galaxy brain opinions ..

still wondering how he calls himself "journalist" after all

20

u/big_panda May 17 '21

Thank you for this post! All the asshat tweets from “pros” and RL were god damn annoying.

Nip followed protocol and got massive backlash from community the moment Innocent started to tweet a bunch of misleading garbage. Did anyone care to read the allegations of Anonymo in a separate chat trying to make NiP get penalty points for the delay? They are not some innocent (pun intended) players here.

And before the downvotes begin I am actually on Anonymos side here. As someone commented in another post: they did not sign up for a rematch after a COMPLETED match, Flashpoint made a ruling that should stand regardless of the unfortunate outcome. It sucks but a rematch will actually suck more.

-3

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

Well the protocol is ass.

9

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

Every thing is fun and games untill it hapends to you, i belive every pro should be happy for this ruling, cuse this will protect them the next time somethings hapends to themself.

23

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21
  • Therefore Anonymo is not being "f'd over" or messed with in any way, they are ever going from having won a game where they comparatively had the advantage to playing a game in which there is no external advantage for either team anymore!

The fault lies entirely with Flashpoint. It is not Anonymo's fault, nor is it NIPs fault. The community needs to stop blaming either team. Flashpoint is the culprit of poor tournament organization, without clear rules to resolve the issue of poor servers.

Of course Anonymo feels that Flashpoint is being pressured by NIP, because in no circumstance, ever, would the match need to be replayed. If the situation was reversed, Flashpoint would likely have argued that they cannot undo the result, as the match was played in full.

NIP should have withdrawn immediately when Flashpoint was not offering to resolve the situation with a reschedule. This part is on NIP, for not being a responsible organization. They continued to play and are now bullshitting their way into a replay.

I don't see what Anonymo can do in this case. They won the games fair and square and are now being asked to replay bo1 or bo3. An absolutely ABSURD request from the TO. Flashpoint should immediately compensate NIP and move ahead with Anonymo as the winner - there is no other outcome from this, unless Flashpoint wants to ruin their reputation even further.

15

u/IntrovertChild Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

I lol'd. Your first paragraph says to stop blaming either teams then in your third and fourth paragraph you're blaming NiP and taking Anonymo's side.

It was Flashpoint's fault, but no way in hell is it on NiP that they continued to play in that condition. The players' complaints were ignored and forced to play by the admin. Withdrawing from an RMR event, yeah right.

-5

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

I am not blaming NIP for the decision that Flashpoint made, are you mentally challenged or what?

I gave my opinion on what NIP should have done instead of now whining on Twitter about it. All they gained from this was massive criticism of their players AND their organization. If they had withdrawn and requested a reschedule, they would have had full support of the community.

10

u/IntrovertChild Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

This part is on NIP, for not being a responsible organization. They continued to play and are now bullshitting their way into a replay.

Your opinion is just flat out wrong, sorry. How are they an irresponsible organization for continuing to play at that time? They complained about the connection and requested a reschedule at 1-1 in the first map. The admin literally ignored them and forced them to play. So it's either straight up disqualified from the tourney, or a chance for a rematch later. How is that any way on NiP? They are not wrong to ask for a rematch when this is the card that they were dealt.

-2

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

How would NIP ever get disqualified for withdrawing from the match before playing it in full, when the fault of their packet loss was with the server settings at Flashpoint?

Do you even read what you write man?

6

u/IntrovertChild Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

Oh? So it's just clear cut that any team can just refuse to play a match and it's guaranteed it wouldn't count as a forfeit? Don't be ridiculous. You can't get it through your head that the technical issue was not resolved at all, and no one at the time knew whose fault it was. You're speaking in hindsight.

NiP's statement said that staff wasn't even allowed in the room with players at that time, so it was up to the players to decide to continue playing or not. Could you have decided to risk forfeiting a major-related match? Don't make me laugh.

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43

u/Deku949 Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

NIP should have withdrawn immediately when Flashpoint was not offering to resolve the situation with a reschedule. This part is on NIP, for not being a responsible organization. They continued to play and are now bullshitting their way into a replay.

What a ridiculous take. you think they should have risked a disqulification? NiP are following the rules. You think this is bullshit but anonymo won an objectively unfair match and flashpoint made the decision to have the match replayed. Here you can see in the rules that NiP can't simply just withdraw however they want.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1lUZ60XEAAVZ-n?format=png&name=small

-3

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/dc-x May 17 '21

This is wrong. The image on /u/Deku949 post makes it very clear that you're still supposed to play the match to a finish and then make a request to the organizer to investigate and come up with a solution.

-3

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

Issues after a match.

The rule you posted is entirely during a match. They had packet loss from warmup, as such the game wasn't started.

5

u/Deku949 Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

can you not see that it says "during a match the team must play the Match to a finish"? Or did you simply just read the title?

-3

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

So their packet loss in warmup is something you just don't want to take into account?

1

u/Deku949 Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

https://i.imgur.com/2uVwR3A_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand What loss during warmup? warmup and prac server was fine

0

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

That's their practice server. When they got into the game during warmup, they had packet loss already. pracc server =/= warmup.

27

u/yawnston Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

NIP should have withdrawn immediately when Flashpoint was not offering to resolve the situation with a reschedule. This part is on NIP, for not being a responsible organization. They continued to play and are now bullshitting their way into a replay.

This is just insane. This is a RMR event, i.e. a qualifier for the only major in forever. NiP were offered 2 choices by Flashpoint at the time - keep playing with unfair conditions, or forfeit the match. Are you actually serious in that they should have willingly forfeit a match in a Major qualifier event, even though none of what happened was their fault?

1

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

NIP would have had the entire communities support if they had declined to play with packet loss of 30-40% and requested a rescheduling. As far as I understand it, Anonymo wasn't against such arrangement.

I didn't say they should forfeit the match, but withdraw. This would allow them to request a reschedule for a match that wasn't played yet.

13

u/imroroyo May 17 '21

You are forgetting the fact that Flashpoint already had refused a rescheduling at that point.

Further, withdrawing is the same as forfeiting in this instance, as playing or forfeiting were the only two options brought to NIP by Flashpoint.

-6

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

How does that matter? If NIP were completely sure that the packet loss was not from their side, they should refuse to play under any circumstances. It's much easier to get a decision made in your favor if the match is not played in full.

6

u/yawnston Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

If NIP were completely sure that the packet loss was not from their side

That's not how that works, nothing is sure until a full investigation can take place, especially nothing is sure during a 1 hour tech break during which nobody is allowed to enter the playing room to check the computers (RMR rules). All NiP had at that point was proof that they had loss problems, that's it. They were frantically trying different servers and VPNs, basically everything to just make it work quickly. They couldn't have been sure under those circumstances.

3

u/dc-x May 17 '21

The rules make it clear that you're supposed to play the match to a finish and only then request to the organizer to properly investigate the problem:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1lUZ60XEAAVZ-n?format=png&name=small

Had they refused to play it would be considered a forfeit.

-1

u/Symmetrik FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

It’s definitely much easier and much fairer to “replay” a series that was never played in the first place.

13

u/MeisterKarl Fnatic Fanatic May 17 '21

This assumes that it would be guaranteed that the match would be replayed, which apparently it was not at the time. NiP had the choice between losing or trying to win under bad circumstances.

11

u/yawnston Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

That's very true. However, there was no guarantee at the time that a replay would even be possible. When the TO literally says "play or forfeit", it's very obvious what your choice is. If it was some random tournament (i.e. not RMR), of course a big org could say "you know what? screw you, this is not acceptable". Not in RMR though. This is literally for the biggest event of the year, and being in it is massive (sticker revenue, PR, etc). There was not a choice, in that situation if you are NiP you either take 100% guaranteed loss or you take 90% guaranteed loss.

Also, if you are the players, how can you in that situation know what is the right action? You don't know if your ISP is fucking up or it's the LAN at the office or if the server is fucking up like in this case. Imagine if they had forfeited but it was then determined that it was a problem of their ISP, not of Flashpoint servers. How fucking stupid would the players feel in that situation?

-1

u/Symmetrik FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

Clearly it wasn’t “play or forfeit” though, and it ultimately turned that situation into a win/win for NiP. Either they play and win with the lag, or they ultimately just get another chance anyway.

They seemed pretty certain after an hour it wasn’t their fault, especially when they found a non-faceit server in the same place that was working. If the conditions are unplayable, don’t play. Once the match was allowed to finish, that should have been that.

Maybe compensate NiP with a minimum of top 12 RMR points, so if they lose again they get top 12 instead of 13-16 (which is all a win against Anonymo would guarantee them anyway). NiP still gets to play in the tournament, they just have to go through the lower bracket. If they finish above that then they get the points for it.

6

u/yawnston Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

Clearly it wasn’t “play or forfeit” though

Go read the GOTV chat from the match, it was posted on this subreddit. NiP players are literally complaining about lag, not being able to switch to knife and taking 4 seconds to pull out a flash. Admin says 2 things: "we will go live" and "please get ready". There was literally no choice except playing and forfeiting at that moment.

it ultimately turned that situation into a win/win for NiP

Even if I agreed with that, that is hindsight. Nobody could have known that at the time.

-1

u/Symmetrik FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

I saw the chat logs. But clearly since flashpoint has ruled that a replay will happen, it didn’t matter what they chose at that moment. We could have been in exactly the same situation if they had chose not to play instead, and the public reaction would be a lot different for NiP, and I’d bet more players would be on their side too.

If NiP knew they were within the rules to request an investigation & rematch, and they knew the issue wasn’t on their end, then it’s not really hindsight.

Either way NiP deserves some compensation, but a replay of a match they willingly agreed to play under poor conditions ain’t it.

3

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

But clearly since flashpoint has ruled that a replay will happen, it didn’t matter what they chose at that moment.

thats such a stupid thing to say. If NiP had declined to play they would probably had received a default loss with no chance to appeal.

21

u/Deku949 Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

The rules state to play the game and then make a complaint. Which is exactly what NiP did. You can think the rule should be different but to replay the match is the correct outcome

0

u/Symmetrik FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

That rule states if it is a rules violation or other breach of regulations. Which sure, is quite a bit different. If Anonymo was cheating, they don’t deserve a fair rematch, they would deserve a disqualification. But that wasn’t the case, there was no rules violation or breach or regulations, so that doesn’t apply.

7

u/zamu16 May 17 '21

They risked DQ from the entire tournament by forfeiting the match. Would you take that risk?

3

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

They won the games fair and square

no, they didnt. Thats the point. Them not being responsible doesnt make it fair.

1

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

From Anonymo's side? Of course it does. You cannot say Anonymo aren't playing fair and square when they agreed to the same conditions as NIP, provided by Flashpoint.

3

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

Like I said, Anonymo dont need to do anything wrong themselves for the game to not be fair. I would make some examples, but I have seen other comments try to get that idea into your head unsuccessfully, so I wont bother repeating their mistake.

2

u/Detonation Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

You have chosen a strange and incredibly stupid hill to die on today.

14

u/Zarwil May 17 '21

I don't see what Anonymo can do in this case. They won the games fair and square and are now being asked to replay bo1 or bo3.

Except... they didn't? Since NiP played with significant lagging issues the games were never fair to begin with.

-8

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

I don't think you understand what fair and square means. Anonymo wasn't the reason for NIP having packet loss. It was entirely Flashpoints fault and both teams agreed to continue playing. So they won fair and square no matter how you put it.

6

u/tiranenrex May 17 '21

Imagine if a referee drugged boxer A before the match so he would only be able to fight with 60% of hes capability, then boxer B won that match. Do you still think boxer B won fair and squere.

Shit would upset the whole community and demand a rematch.

5

u/springjack_shepherd May 17 '21

One team was basically forced to either play with lag spikes or concede. Yes they both agreed to play the match because it was either hope for the best or give up your chances of making the major entirely. From a competitive standpoint that doesn't make this game fair in any way.

8

u/cechmeoutt mousesports Fan May 17 '21

Sorry? That's like putting a normal football team against a team of players with a missing limb, and saying 'well they won fair and square because it's not their fault that the other team have disabilities'.

It is clearly not a 'fair' matchup, is it?

-3

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

That's not the same at all? It would be the same if we said one team had illness, like a cold and couldn't perform 100%, but for some reason they decided not to have a single player on the bench to substitute and then the tournament organizer asks them to play on and later we find out that the TO had given the team with illness some shitty food earlier.

You can't blame the healthy team in this case, nor can you penalize them for the TOs mistake. Flashpoint needs to get their acts together and compensate NIP in any way they can, but the result must stand or the integrity of their tournament is gone.

3

u/cechmeoutt mousesports Fan May 17 '21

No, the integrity of the tournament is gone if they let the result stand...I'm not blaming Anonymo, but it clearly was never a fair match due to an issue that was down to the TO. Anonymo aren't being penalized at all, they are literally going to play the match how it should have been played originally, i.e. on a level playing field.

7

u/imroroyo May 17 '21

Jesus, you really need to be stupid to have shit takes like this.

-3

u/TokiToki1500 May 17 '21

That's coming from a NIP fanboy, rich stuff!

3

u/imroroyo May 17 '21

Oh shit, I learn something new about myself every day. Thank you for the enlightenment!

(Psst.. Projecting much?)

1

u/suriel- Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

I don't think you understand what fair and square means.

i don't think you understand what "fair and square" means

-5

u/Sh4kableMist May 17 '21

I don't think it was unreasonable for NIP to push on for a rematch, after all the teams did all sign to the rulings which allow for this! I think the game should be replayed completely as a BO3, including a redo of the veto (as this is a point of competitive concern for both teams...), but I also think a NIP forfeit would be a just-finish to the situation.
As compensation, I think NIP should maybe be offered something like 1/2 the min. RMR points? That seems like an outcome that doesn't damage their opportunities of getting to teh major whilst also allowing Anonymo to continue their hopes of qualifying.

16

u/bacalhoeiro May 17 '21

Rematch must happen. "Oh it's unfair to Anonymo, they won!" yep they did, against opponents that were in a big disadvantage due to circumstances out of their control (faceit/flashpoint's fault only). Not wanting to do a rematch is immature and honestly very disappointing.

0

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

Would there be a rematch if NIP had won?

21

u/bacalhoeiro May 17 '21

I don't think NIP would've presented a complaint if they had won of course. Maybe they would still have complained publicly about the unacceptable conditions though.

2

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

Do you not see an issue here? The integrity of the sport is damaged by this. There was an issue that made it unable to play a fair game. The only solution to this is to postpone until it becomes a fair game. Giving NIP a free trial run at the win is insane.

24

u/Zarwil May 17 '21

Flashpoint rejected the idea of postponement during the pause, so blame ultimately lies with them. Both sets of players wanted either postponement, or new 3rd party server.

13

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

This is 100% flashpoints fault ofcourse, they are the organizers, this is literally what they get paid for.

3

u/Stiff444 May 17 '21

No I don’t. If they would’ve won at a disadvantage they would probably have won in a fair game as well

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2

u/bacalhoeiro May 17 '21

Well if the issue was found a replay would be the best option. The fact is if NIP didn't complain nobody would know about this, so I don't think you could trust flashpoint to do that by themselves.

9

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

?????? The issue was found, thats why there was an hour+ of techincal timeouts. The problem was the solution wasnt found, but flashpoint let the game continue anyway without fixing an issue big enough to nullify the results of the game. Its a completely irresponsible decision, they were literally gambling on the fact NIP would win so they wouldnt need to find the solution to the problem.

3

u/UncleJakes 1 Million Subs Celebration May 17 '21

they were gambling on the fact that the problem lied with NiP's internet.

5

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Thats a gamble you dont need to take. Postpone anyway, and if NIP lied (they had to provide proof to get the rematch scheduled, meaning there is data available to showcase if they are lying or not) you disqualify them. Letting a compromised game play out is always gonna cause huge damage to the integrity of the tournament and the sport in general.

Its like an airliner getting reports of engine issues but not wanting to ruin the day of its passangers by cancelling so they fly anyway. Its an INSANE gamble to take. The upside (not pissing of passangers/not pissing of CS fans) is way smaller than the downside (dead passangers and people knowing you knew about the engine issues and flew anyway/nullified results and the viewers knowing you knew about the issues but let the game play out anyway).

3

u/UncleJakes 1 Million Subs Celebration May 17 '21

i know.

It's a tough decision, in the sense that no matter what the admins decide, they end up in a bad situation. They still made the wrong decision and ended up in a far worse situation than what could have been.

Also, people are saying that the NiP players should have refused to play and willingly taken the DQ by admins, but in reality they also didn't know what the problem was, and if it turned out that it was indeed NiP's internet which was at fault, they would have given themselves an auto-loss instead of a chance to win by playing (which they were told to do by admins).

0

u/bacalhoeiro May 17 '21

I agree man, it was a shit decision by flashpoint. Still, NIP was harmed unfairly, that's why I think there should be a rematch, even though it sucks for Anonymo. I think having an actual fair match should matter more.

7

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

But you could just as easily say that anonymo had prepared for this game and now the suprise element of their strategy is gone, while NIP had a trial run to figure out how anonymo plays. So now anonymo is at an disadvantage.

At this point its literally damned if you do damned if you dont. And this was a predictable result of letting a compromised game play out. Shame on flashpoint.

3

u/Symmetrik FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

This is why there should be some form of compensation to NiP in the form of RMR points, but not a replay.

Let’s also not forget NiP is still in the tournament either way. Give NiP a guaranteed, like, 10th place RMR points, if they finish above that then they get the points they get.

2

u/ImAStupidFace Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

Let’s also not forget NiP is still in the tournament either way. Give NiP a guaranteed, like, 10th place RMR points, if they finish above that then they get the points they get.

This seems like a somewhat fair solution, but I doubt it's legal according to the rules. Improvising a questionable solution is only going to make the drama worse.

1

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

Yes, there is an issue. But that cant be unfucked now. You cant possibly argue that NiP doesnt deserve a fair shot because they allready got a half assed one.

1

u/suriel- Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

There was an issue that made it unable to play a fair game.

yes, for NiP. Anonymo had no issues. So why on earth would NiP have to present a complaint if they still won under unfair conditions? They would have won anyways

5

u/MrDrak3n May 17 '21

According to rules, yes.

5

u/Smucko May 17 '21

If anonymo would provide proof of a MASSIVE disadvantage leaving then yes

They too would refer to the rulebook WHICH ALL TEAMS SIGNED and be able to get a rematch

Stop acting like its some great fucking conspiracy

1

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

Its not a conspiracy, its retarded. If there are technical issues flashpoint should not start the game until they are fixed. If you cant fix it after an hour you dont stick you head in the sand and go "LALALALALA", pretend the issue isnt real, let the game play out and hope NIP wins so you dont have to fix the issue. You postpone, and if NIP was lying, which is the only excuse flashpoint has for starting a game while players where still saying they have technical issues, you disqualify them.

1

u/Smucko May 17 '21

Turns out, I was the retard all along

Sorry my dude i completely misread your first comment! Thought you were parroting RL that "if the problems wouldve been on the other side they wouldnt be given a replay"

1

u/TheUHO Canals Veteran 29d ago

What a massive idiot

4

u/FATIMOPY Italy Veteran May 17 '21

Man you're doing a fact list and you're writing your personal opinion in it?

6

u/FlygandeSjuk Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

As I said before, in any other sport it would have been a rematch. If you can't maintain the integrity of the game, you can't maintain the integrity of the sport. Esport is so immature. Blows my mind how many big names in the scene/industry who doesn't see it this way... We should not be OK with TOs giving teams unjust advantages! If we are ok with this, we indirectly open up the possibility of match fixing/gambling schemes for TOs associates...

Btw OP nice summary of the situation!

23

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

No in any other sport you would never let a game play out you know from the start was compromised. If you find out afterwards that someone was cheating or something a rematch makes sense, but if you know beforehand that there are severe issues you should never let it play out because the result wont stand anyway.

Imagine if at tour the france they do a doping test before the race and catch someone, you dont let the race start as planned and if the guy doping wins you just redo the race. Thats just dumb.

7

u/Deku949 Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

Imagine if at tour the france they do a doping test before the race and catch someone, you dont let the race start as planned and if the guy doping wins you just redo the race. Thats just dumb.

So what you're suggesting is that the runner should refuse to run while the race is taking place? According to the rules a team is supposed to play the match and then after make a complaint, which is exactly what NiP did. It's so ridiculous that you and others for some reason want NiP to deal with the issue in a way which would break the rules.

14

u/imadethisforonething Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

The problem was that Flashpoint were not able to confirm that there were issues beforehand or during the timeout.

The ideal situation would have been to postpone the game, so there needs to be some post-mortem of this by Flashpoint to see if there was a way that they could confirm the issue and postpone the game.

But there still needs to be a resolution to the current situation, what should a tournament organiser do when they confirm that 1 team had a severe issue during the match and went on to lose?

I can see where both sides are coming from, if I was the NiP players then I'd definitely want a rematch, but it does seem incredibly unfair to the Anonymo players, who by all accounts in the chat logs were open to finding any solution during the match.

2

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21

Postponing the game is not the ideal solution, its the only solution. Like does anyone think a pro CS team that gets paid to play CS is gonna lie about tech issues to weasel themselves out of playing CS? And even if that were the case thats an easy disqualifier, nobody would be mad at that.

You cannot talk about protecting the integrity of the game and then let a series start where only NIP can win or it gets replayed. Thats insane, instead of fixing the issue you just let it play out and hope that NIP wins so you dont have to deal with it? Because we all know that if NIP had won there would be no rematch.

3

u/imadethisforonething Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

I'm not disagreeing.

The game should have been postponed. Anything else would be a mistake.

The problem was that it was not postponed. Somebody somewhere made a mistake. So now we have to ask what the best way to rectify that mistake is, or whether it's even required to rectify the mistake.

1

u/FlygandeSjuk Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

Because no complaints would have been filed. All according to the rules.

1

u/JanEric1 iBUYPOWER Fan May 17 '21

Like does anyone think a pro CS team that gets paid to play CS is gonna lie about tech issues to weasel themselves out of playing CS?

if you feel unprepared or whatever i dont think it is unreasonable for teams to try to use a postpone to gain an advantage(mitigate a felt disadvantage) just like teams abused the coach bug or had the streams open to gain advantages that way.

on top of that no one actually requested a postpone according to flashpoint.

1

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

on top of that no one actually requested a postpone according to flashpoint.

*officially requested. I very much doubt flashpoint made that distinction accidentally.

1

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

And even if that were the case thats an easy disqualifier, nobody would be mad at that.

that doesnt make sense though. Since nobody could confirm was the issue was NiP couldnt rule out it being on their side either. In which case the gamble would have been on them to postpone the match and risk a DQ, despite not doing anything wrong.
Thats the exact kind of situation that leads to the game being continued and later nullified.

7

u/FlygandeSjuk Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

Good example from dNL on Twitter

Would you feel good about a win against a team that had a disadvantage that was proven to be the TOs fault? Picture a race where the cars are given out by the organizer and after the race you can proof that one of the cars had 30% less engine power from the start.

They didn't know who's fault it was. It was assumed it was NiP:s fault. It wasn't. NiP followed the rules, made a complaint. The rules states that if the integrity of the game could be questioned because an unfair advantage the game goes to a rematch.

Yes they should have rescheduled it righ away. Ye this has been handled terribly by everyone involved.

4

u/_TheDude420 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Okay but this example is missing one thing, the race organizers where told about the engine issues before the race. Nobody in their right mind woulf still let the race start even if they dont immediatly have the proof, you postpone and if you figure out that the teams were lying about their issues you disqualify them.

Competetive integrity is gone as soon as you let a compromised event take place and hope that the people with the disadvantage win anyway so you dont have to deal with the issue, and if threy lose, redo the match. Thats insane. Starting a competition where only one side can win legitimately and if the other side wins its an issue is the definition of kiling the integrity of the sport.

7

u/FlygandeSjuk Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

The race organizers thought it was the fault of the teams own mechanics, but then later found out it wasn't. It was unfair competition because the race car that the organizer provided had 30% less power..

1

u/JanEric1 iBUYPOWER Fan May 17 '21

meh. if we roughly take the car example.

one driver reports and issue with his car. you check a couple things and cant find anything wrong on your side. so you assume he is doing something wrong and start the match. you dont just postpone cause he might have seen another driver wear something special or drink something or whatever and now wants to do the same to gain an advantage for the new start.

afterwards you you check more thoroughly (cause you have more time and information) and find the enginge was actually a bit worse for whatever reason. so you reply the match.

but if you had straight up postpone and later found out that there was a peanut(or whatever) stuck under the gas pedal cause the driver accidentally dropped it then you dont go and disqualify him for lieing. so you option of just postponing everything on request and then DQing the other party also doesnt work.

0

u/totek1 May 17 '21

Would you feel good about a win against a team that had a disadvantage that was proven to be the TOs fault? Picture a race where the cars are given out by the organizer and after the race you can proof that one of the cars had 30% less engine power from the start.

That's pretty much the essence of Formula 1. There are better and worse cars and one car from one of the better teams usually wins. And yes this is TOs fault. the prize distrubution in F1 is based on last season accomplishments, last few season accomplishments (which already puts smaller teams in great disadvantage) + Ferrari gets few millions just because its a Ferrari, so unless you have few geniuses on your staff you can't compete with McLaren or Ferrari.

Could you also provide me with some examples of rematches of finished matches from other sports, which you said is a norm? Because I can't think of one. Instead I can give you few examples of the games where referee made devastating mistake and there was no rematch: 1. Henry handball goal France vs Ireland in ET which elimanated Ireland from WC, Maradona goal, England vs Germany no goal WC2010.

Flashpoint screwed up badly and NiP is a victim here, but forcing a quick rematch on Anonymo puts them into great disadvantage, even though they haven't done anything wrong. NiP is one of the biggest organizations and probably right as we speak few guys are watching Demos from the match and are anylizng every round. Before the first match I would give the odds 65-35 for NiP, if the rematch takes place it's more 90-10 for NiP

2

u/FlygandeSjuk Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

They have pretty strict rules in Formula 1. The cars and the mechanics are part of the team, that is why the example doesn't equate with F1. I can even agree that it was silly of me doing the comparison (even thought I think it is relevant and has point).

In CSGO the rules that was agreed on before the tournament states that NIP has the right to a rematch. I agree with the rules being inconsistent and is in the favour of NiP here. But the rules are the rules. I would have been OK with no replay, if that was the case. Now they have the right to protest the result and that means a rematch. As in other sports, they have clear rules of how the process goes down, same here. Most sports goes for the call that was made during the game. Respect the rules is what NiP did, if the rules was anything else, we would have a different result. The rules are not new, this is the second time we have a replay based of a ruling.

1

u/suriel- Natus Vincere Fan May 17 '21

No in any other sport you would never let a game play out you know from the start was compromised.

except of course in cases where football fans of say Team A were in the block of Team B and were throwing various items and fireworks towards Team B's keeper so that he can't catch balls. You can't foresee things like this and you need to make a decision on the run/afterwards

0

u/TheUHO Canals Veteran May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

As I said before, in any other sport it would have been a rematch.

Examples?

Edit: I guess we are at 0.

5

u/Bassmekanik Chroma May 17 '21

Sorry. But you failed to paint nip as a terrible team/org and anonymo as the underdog hero as per all the voices on Reddit/Twitter so your post in invalid. /s

Teams followed the rules and were happy to do so (to nips detriment and anonymo’s gain). If the rules now say rematch then that’s what it should be.

3

u/sadtimes12 BIG Fan May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Regarding the rematch:

Anonymo does get "f'd over" when they replay. NiP now has the good ol' "hindsight" where you know better afterwards. I am sure if they replayed the game they would do less mistakes on NiPs side and also Anonymo would lose some surprises they had during the match. You can't just replay the match and say it's gonna be the same again because we humans adapt and learn, especially when doing something again. Just think about it, you do something once, and then you do it again, you will do it better the 2nd time around almost guaranteed, ESPECIALLY if you lost, because you have a real tangible issue where you can improve upon.

Both teams are losing in this, but Anonymo would lose more because they were 100% not responsible for the issue and had no malicious intent at all. Flashpoint and NiP are at fault here, anonymo did nothing bad and won.

11

u/bacalhoeiro May 17 '21

How exactly is NIP at fault? Flashpoint/faceit had wrong server configs.

3

u/sfjhfdffffJJJJSE May 17 '21

Anonymo doesn't have hindsight? Or demos of nip matches?

0

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

Both teams are losing in this, but Anonymo would lose more because they were 100% not responsible for the issue and had no malicious intent at all. Flashpoint and NiP are at fault here, anonymo did nothing bad and won.

thats absolutely ridiculous. Yes, Anonymo is the underdog and revealing strats hurts them more than NiP - but NiP had to play with fucking packet loss. How is that not worse? And how is NiP at fault for any of this?
It sucks for Anonymo, no doubt about that. But playing a new match is so much less shitty for Anonymo then not replaying would be shitty for NiP. And since neither team is responsible for that situation, replaying is the only sane decision.

3

u/TheMaverick13589 1 Million Subs Celebration May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Flashpoint fucked up by not postponing the match (obviously), that being said NiP decided to play anyway, so the game should be considered done and dusted.

Doesn't really matter who or what was causing the problem, everyone agreed to play at the time. Nothing else really matters. A team cannot go:"If we win we are fine, if we lose we ask for a rematch", even if the only option was a forfeit.

NiP should have just refused at to play any cost, even if that meant forfeit, it would have been then much easier to then ask for a "rematch" of something that had never happened rather that trying to play anyway to see how it goes.

If Anonymo would not be the better team under a competitively balanced environment, then they do not deserve to be placed above NIP...

Well this is pretty fucking stupid. The better team doesn't always win even in the most balanced playing field.

4

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

that being said NiP decided to play anyway, so the game should be considered done and dusted.

Thats only true if they were given a free choice. "Play or forfeit" is NOT a free choice.

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8

u/TiberSVK Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

You either play the match or youre disqualiffied. Not really fair in this context

0

u/Piter74 May 17 '21

Those aren't actual facts, there's clearly a bios towards NiP... You didn't say that the NiP owner said Flashpoint should never be allowed to have RMR tournament, which is clearly abuse of power by a big org.

3

u/fhusquinet May 17 '21

He voiced his opinion, which was shared by plenty of people even before this edition started... This drama just confirms it, Flashpoint isn't good enough to hold a qualifier for such an important tournament.

1

u/Seft0 May 17 '21

Match ended and Anonymo won. End of story. There was many such unfair games (football) in world sport history, even at prestigious finals. I have never seen a mach to be replayed.

3

u/amoocalypse May 17 '21

Match ended and Anonymo won. End of story.

Thats your opinion. And it contradicts the rules.

-9

u/JustWantedPeanuts Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

NIP should have a backup ISP to prevent issues just like this.

Also, your take isn't objective, clearly sides with NIP

11

u/Bonecollector33 Heroic Fan May 17 '21

Not sure if you've fully read the report but their ISP wasn't the issue... Flashpoint server settings blocked NiP's port and the result would have been the same even if they swapped... Which is why their VPN didn't make a difference.

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16

u/Zarwil May 17 '21

People who know much more about networks than me said that switching to a VPN would effectively be the same thing as switching ISP's in this regard. NiP did try a VPN, but issues remained.

-3

u/JustWantedPeanuts Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

Yea, that's my job. It's similar but not the same

1

u/BigNigExtreme Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

"The actual facts" Post is 40% opinion. What a joke.

0

u/TiberSVK Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan May 17 '21

And 60% facts, people CAN express their opinion

2

u/BigNigExtreme Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

Yes, they absolutely can. However, if you market your post as being "the actual facts". Having nearly half of the content being opinion is dishonest and sly.

-2

u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

6

u/namr0d May 17 '21

it's like you don't even read the post lol

refuse to play = automatic forfeit

completely unfair? you mean trying to win a bo3 while disadvantaged from the start due to the organizer's incompetency? you're a joke.

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

5

u/namr0d May 17 '21

you're speaking in hindsight. obviously if they knew a replay was an option then they would've refused to play. unfortunately, if your only two options are to forfeit or to continue playing, who in their right mind would willingly forfeit just to bank on getting a replay later???

-1

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/namr0d May 17 '21

I'm sorry but where does it state that when you play you are accepting the conditions of the game? they chose to play because that was their only "reasonable" option out of the two they were presented. clearly they did not accept the conditions of the game throughout the match (from chat logs) nor afterwards (formal complaints, tweets). everyone's a loser and flashpoint has to take responsibility for their own mistakes somehow

0

u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

3

u/namr0d May 17 '21

so you're saying it's impossible to play without accepting the conditions? if so then I have nothing else to say to you. it's entirely possible to play while being dissatisfied with the conditions at hand, especially if the alternative is to "not play" and forfeit -- a solution that I'm sure nip wouldn't accept either.

2

u/enigma890 FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

Then why is it in the rule book they can request a rematch after the fact if it was not their fault?

3

u/D0zzy- Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

It's a qualifier event though. Either option is a lose-lose for NIP.

-9

u/[deleted] May 17 '21

[deleted]

9

u/Active_Ad3715 May 17 '21

Then again it would be an unfair match lol.

8

u/FullDerpHD FaZe Clan Fan May 17 '21

On what grounds? They didn't do anything to deserve a lead. Nip raised concerns about the lag on the second round of the first map.

They didn't win a fair game. It would be absurd to give them a free map for beating a gimped opponent.

21

u/groberschnitzer mousesports Fan May 17 '21

Yeah, let's just add a bit more randomness into this whole affair.

3

u/Stiff444 May 17 '21

Thank god it’s not up to you then

-2

u/TheFlash1294 May 17 '21

So according to the rulebook, the team facing the problem gets to offer the other team whether they want to play a BO3 or just the final map. Whoever wrote this rulebook has to be stupider than the back of my hand, or perhaps and in my opinion the more likely scenario is that NiP is not being 100% transparent about the situation. They already have flashpoint's neck in a pinch. They know that Anonymo can not win a social media war. Therefore they do this. It is obvious that NiP has a significant advantage over Anonymo in a replay. Anonymo's win was a fluke and 9 times out of 10 NiP wins and Anonymo knows that. During the match they were ready to do whatever they had to, to make sure the playing conditions were fair but after the game has been played, asking a replay makes the playing conditions stacked incredibly against them. They can't use any special strats/reads they had prepared. NiP got additional time to prepare against Anonymo which they probably didn't do as rigorously earlier because they were playing against a 44th ranked team in the world. There's absolutely no way NiP pushes so hard for a replay against a team better than them. I am not blaming players from either side for this. It's the organisations pulling this sh*t. The fault for this either way lies entirely with flashpoint but NiP's handling of the situation after the fact wasn't something to brag about either.

-3

u/Pflaumileinchen May 17 '21

Is it known what exactly happened to cause the package loss? Is there any way to inspect the evidence provided by NIP?

10

u/unexpectedreboots Team Liquid Fan May 17 '21

Flashpoint confirmed their server security settings were blocking packets from NIP.

10

u/MrDrak3n May 17 '21

Yes, stated 5 times already. Settings of server were wrong - most likely DDOS protection.

-7

u/Pflaumileinchen May 17 '21

Wow that's really the answer I was looking for and it's also so detailed. Thank you very much, also thanks for the evidence provided by NIP

7

u/fhusquinet May 17 '21

Flashpoint confirmed it the issue was on their side. I don't think they'll ever release that info to the public (why would they?).
You can either believe them, which is imo the thing to do. Or you can think it's a conspiracy to have an unfair rematch because NiP pressured Flashpoint into it.

Whatever you choose to believe doesn't matter in the end, Flashpoint isn't consulting with random Reddit users to know what to do. Thanks god for that, they already fucked up 3 times here, don't need to double that amount.

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/fhusquinet May 17 '21

Anonymo isn't consulting anyone either before releasing statements saying NiP is forcing Flashpoint to replay the match. Where do you want to go with this?

Obviously Flashpoint doesn't have to consult with any team before making a ruling (as bad as it is). Anonymo already tried to get NiP a DQ because of the one hour pause on the first map, is disingenuous in their statement, is trying to get the public to side with them so they can get away without replaying the match. They are doing what they can to keep that slot in the upper bracket, whatever. But I don't think Flashpoint owes them anything after that, regardless of the statement.

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '21 edited 11d ago

[deleted]

1

u/fhusquinet May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Wording was poor, but that doesn't mean NiP was consulted before issuing the statement, just that NiP talked with Flashpoint during their internal investigation.

EDIT: To clarify, the investigation could have resulted in Flashpoint agreeing that the issue was on their side and a rematch should be done. NiP could have been said "ok for the rematch, either a BO3 or BO1 is fine for us" and Flashpoint's issued a statement afterwards that was referencing that by mistake.
Also if you want to take Flashpoint's statement to the letter, it seems like Anonymo was consulted before because it is written "has been offered". Since it is written in the past, it means Anonymo was offered those options before the statement was issued to the public.

-26

u/leftover_brownie May 17 '21

Lets say there's an Olympics bronze medal match between country A and country N.

Country N boxer has a cold and a headache on the day of the boxing event, and thus country A player ends winning.

Will Olympics replay the game?

5

u/Active_Ad3715 May 17 '21

Then that is the boxer's problem and kinda his fault, but NiP aren't at fault for having to play with packet loss, it's the Organizer's fault

15

u/TechRedirector Loyalty Pin May 17 '21

What is this brain dead take lol?

Flashpoint had issues with their security systems affecting NIPs routing. Alternatives were given but Flashpoint admins didn't accept, even anonymo players asked for it to be rescheduled but admins didn't approve. Look at the chat logs, admins weren't even replying NIP players. This isn't a case of player a has cold, its not comparable and a bad example

10

u/MindlessVersion May 17 '21

Downvotes for not having brain and equating this situation to imaginary stupid situations.

Imagine this, imagine that bla bla. How do you judge that situation mentioned above is equal to current drama? simply you can't equate the current situation to an imaginary situation. Did you read that post. For you peanut sized brain let me explain it.

One should not say that if this happened in this sport then the result would be this, So lets do this here. It is a fucking CSGO Tournament with it's own set of rules. All things should be done according to the set of rules(which all teams signed to follow). So what's the problem of following the rules??

It's okay to have biased opinion but don't force it as that opinion is correct.

2

u/JanEric1 iBUYPOWER Fan May 17 '21

no, which is what would have happend if the problem here is purely on nips side.

however of the olympic comittee had (accidentally) given boxer A worse shoes or gloves and give him bad food, or just in general was (even partially) responible for the disadvantage you probably should reply the game.

2

u/Cahootie May 17 '21

This would be more like one boxer being a heavyweight, while the organizers require the other boxer to be in the middleweight category. This isn't some unexpected interference that nobody could prevent, it's the organizers having an issue that only affected one of the teams.

-21

u/leftover_brownie May 17 '21

LMAO.

Downvotes for not sucking NIP's cock.

Stay mad 🤡

9

u/MrDrak3n May 17 '21

Lol, you made completely wrong take on this. Lets rather say, that there is a chess match, and one of the teams chess figures are missing and bishops and towers of one team are replaced with pawns. Does it seems fair to you?

9

u/sdfedeef May 17 '21

You get downvotes because you make a unfair comparison that decribes this situation very poorly. Is isn't that one party got beat because of the fault of themselves, but they get beat because of unfair circumstances due to the organizer.

-7

u/crunching_karma May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21

Reminds me a situation when Switzerland "played" Ukraine in a recent League of Nations.

Swiss side decided to put Ukrainian team on quarantine and they were not able to attend the game, do you think they were given a chance to have a rematch?

Rematches should never happen, no matter the circumstances, and no matter how unfair it might look to you.

1

u/Fine_Secretary7646 May 17 '21

“Condensed Info” with my opinion

1

u/Solnx May 17 '21

"condensed info" and it's riddled with your opinions. This is a joke.

1

u/itsyaboyivan May 17 '21

no source of info this just looks like your understanding of the facts + your opinion.

1

u/Soonswiftly May 18 '21

You can't just say they need to replay it and if anonymo is really better they should win? Not every day is the same bro. If for example Navi plays gambit every day it will everyday be a different outcome. Your argumentation really looked like one of a 12 year old. + if the match would be replayed, anonymo would have extra pressure that they didn't have before.

-4

u/OnyxKnight May 17 '21

What a fucking fan of post holy shit lol