r/unpopularopinion May 04 '21

The people who most strongly advocate against capitalism are the ones who have already profited so much off of it.

Living in NYC, you see a bunch of people who hate capitalism for whatever reason. A majority of those that do tend to be born as upper middle class women which doesn’t make sense to me. For starters, most of these people come from well-off backgrounds with parents who are lawyers, doctors, businessmen etc who are most certainly participants within the stock market. Due to this, growing up they’re often able to have the luxury of affording the best education possible and usually don’t have to worry about money. I guess somewhere along the line the thought process shifts while attending one of those elite undergraduate schools due to all of the debt that is acquired which is no ones fault but their own. No one forced you to pursue a low-paying career while also taking out a boatload of debt to go to a prestigious undergrad so you can feel superior to everyone else. They end up adopting this kind of victim mentality where anyone who works in a high paying job like finance is automatically a bad person. Theres a good portion of people in these careers who work long, hard hours in order to improve their lives and the lives of their future families, but they end up being demonized because of this smart career choice. Do they not realize that the same people they demonize for contributing to a capitalistic society are also their own family members who at one point started from the very bottom as well? Their entire upbringing has been centered around capitalism and now that they’re struggling due to the life choices that have been made, they expect society to shift in order to cater to them.

Edit: The title still stands as correct. The paragraph is catered towards large metropolitan cities, specifically NYC, but you’ll find these people in every city.

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u/ThePoopPeeMan May 04 '21

sorts by controversial

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u/Osceola12 May 04 '21

800 upvotes 500 comments

this should be fun

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u/Wittyname0 May 04 '21

Honestly I could go on any sub and just say the word "capitalism" and watch the sparks fly

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u/seaQueue May 04 '21

Reactionaries have been trained since birth to view any criticism of capitalism as a personal attack. I expect the comments to go from 0 to 100 real quick.

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u/redditisfornerds300 May 07 '21

you should google what “reactionary” means

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u/reggie23e May 04 '21

that's because reddit allows brigades. Have you notice all the pro CCP genocide deniers on /r/worldnews lately.

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u/NoWorries124 May 04 '21

People who deny the Uyghur genocide are the same ones who would deny the Holocaust had they lived back then

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u/wiz_ling May 04 '21

Do this on the main sub and u get actually unpopular opinions

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u/RedBrownSilverBack May 04 '21

Very good advice (about this sub)

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u/Goatfucker8 May 04 '21

Thata how i found this post. Most controversial of the month

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u/vegetablecommunist May 04 '21

Hijacking this comment (sincerest apologies OP) to point out how much cultural erasure these kind of western posts assume. I know you'll see my username and this already gives away my ideology but please bear with me, I'll not debate ideology with you but make you understand why such opinions trigger me.

I live in a third world country with a population of 1.3 billion people, a small class of individuals have access to resources you lot in the west get access to. The rest toil in factories producing things that you take for granted. Your footballs, your clothes, your high end shoes, your vaccines. We do it at the cost of our own people, we carted off our vaccines to your countries while most of our population couldn't access it due to limited supplies and now we're in a fucking economic and social crisis. We didn't choose to be colonised. We didn't choose to be enslaved, nor did we choose to attain freedom in this manner where we produce your goods for 5% of the rate at which your big capitalists sell it off to. My father wasn't a baron, he made shoes which were sold in Europe under the labels of Zara and Gucci at costs he couldn't dream of. He didn't chose it, his options were to starve or accept this exploitation. You didn't choose it either, most of you are people just living your lives.

But this assumption by some people in the white world that your skewed understanding of your surroundings is what the rest of the world is disgusts me. I, and so many socialists in my country, are against capitalism because it has starved our communities. Even the fact that I can access education and write this answer in coherent and acceptable English is a big deal given the fact that access to education for most communities in my country is a myth.

Hold whatever viewpoints you have about capitalism or not, but don't erase the social realities of people around the world.

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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig May 04 '21

It's easy to think of capitalism as "good" if you are at the right end of the stick. Often educated people (of good backgrounds as described by OP) in western countries are those with the time and means to research this, hence them critiqueing capitalism. More people in the west need to read what you describe about how the west exploits large parts of the rest of the world to sustain the living standards they ascribe to capitalism.

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u/0ctologist May 04 '21

It’s easy to think of Capitalism as good if you are at the right end of the stick

And OPs post is attacking the few people that can see the negatives of capitalism despite benefiting from it.

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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig May 04 '21

It seems logical to me that those who are not struggling and who are educated are most likely to have the time and means to research the origins of their prosperity. It also seems clear that change has to be societal. Them critiqueing their own society is therefore not hypocritical, they have to take part but can maybe instigate change by spreading awareness and public opinion. Although it is not sufficient, giving away all your wealth or simply keeping your mouth shut won't change anything either. Personally I don't see a reason to attack them specifically.

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u/Usually_Angry May 04 '21

I'm the child of a teacher who supported a family of 6. We were middle class, but nowhere near the doctors and lawyers OP is talking about.

I have socialist leanings because I grew up around people in poverty and i just always wanted everyone to have every advantage I had

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u/adangerousdriver May 04 '21

OP's trying to get at "well, in NYC, everyone has A LOT OF MONEY! check mate!"

Uh yeah, you tend to need a lot of money to be able to live in NYC. Is NYC representative of the entire country? Or world? No, and I certainly hope OP is aware of that.

So yes, if you sample the "crazy liberal communists" from only NYC, you will find, unsurprisingly, that most of them tend to have a lot of money. Such an empty "gotcha" attempt.

And, contrary to popular belief, socialism is not "when you have no iphones". Neither does being well off mean you cannot want change for the better of everyone.

OP's entire post is basically this comic.

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u/frog_tree May 04 '21

Its just a personal fantasy. Doctor/lawyer kids typically do not go into massive debt to attend college like the post fantasizes. Theyre also not typically stuck in low paying jobs and tend to be pretty financially successful bc of the whole financial support system thing. Its a lot easier to take risks and find that thing youre good at when youre allowed to fail multiple times.

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u/capt_general May 04 '21

For me knowing I was able to take risks that my less privileged peers(and sometimes betters) couldn't afford to and knowing how that helped me in life makes me socialist-sympathetic

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u/sint0xicateme May 04 '21

So yes, if you sample the "crazy liberal communists"

Liberals /=/ Communists

Communists have many, many critiques of liberals, as liberals support capitalistic solutions to societal issues...caused by....capitalism.

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u/Good_old_Marshmallow May 04 '21

Also historically the socialist movement in America was west Virginia coal miners who charged machine guns during their strike at Blaire Mountain and won us the five day work week. Or unionized rail workers supporting Eugene Deeps. The Black Panthers were explicity Maoist. It is the result of very specific and long efforts that have made explicit socialism in America mostly just a hobby of the very educated.

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u/Effective_Ferret_200 May 04 '21

It’s also not true lol. There are a LOT of poor and middle class people in nyc, they’re simply being erased by this guy’s whitewashed fantasy “coastal elite” version of the world where every progressive is a city dwelling Jewish lawyer with Student loans 🤷🏻‍♂️

AOC was a bartender from the Bronx. That’s NYC. That’s the real NYC. OP is full of shit lol.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

OP probably thinks NYC starts and ends in Manhattan.

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u/Lumpy-Isopod May 04 '21

All the poor people from NYC got forced north to the rest of the state due to gentrification but hell as long as NYC doesn't have to care for the disadvantaged who cares /s. Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor hasn't helped here at least.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

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u/comeformecuzimright May 04 '21

india/bangladesh?

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u/MautKeBaadAishHai May 04 '21

India. We're the ones with the stupid govt that exported all our vaccines.

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u/Nuclear_TeddyBear May 04 '21

There are only two countries in the world with a population of 1.3 billion, and its India and China.

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u/2tec May 04 '21

the upper class is far from only being 'white', let's not confuse classism with racism, yes both are interrelated but they are also distinct evils

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u/lovelyafterthoughts May 04 '21

This is on par with those “you participate in society, yet you criticize it! Hypocrite!” posts.

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u/MommasMuffins May 04 '21

If you have an iPhone, can't criticize capitalism - OP probably

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u/bsnow322 May 04 '21

Communism is when no iphone everyone knows that

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u/MommasMuffins May 05 '21

"When I think of communism, I think of socialism because they are basically the same thing wait that's right, right? "

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u/Lil_Feld May 04 '21

I mean most people view it as like "you're poor and you hate capitalism? Sounds like you just want everything easy for you" OR "you're wealthy and hate capitalism? Sounds like you're a hypocrite"

Can't win

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u/ItsTheManFromScene24 May 04 '21

"When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality." - Russell Brand

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u/urielteranas May 04 '21

Ding ding, nail on the head

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u/Gsteel11 May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality

They don't. At all. They don't even want to breach (edit) the subject or admit the stats exist.

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u/NipponSteelPrevails May 04 '21

Exactly, and if youre middle class and hate capitalism youre just brainwashed by (insert whatever party is advocating against free reign capitalism) you said it yourself, literally cant win because they'll strawman you to oblivion.

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u/dogwater214 May 04 '21

That’s why these weirdos like OP have to make up these hyper-specific straw mans; they have no actual arguments to make, nor are they interested in attempting to defend their position in a meaningful way. So they have to attack completely made-up characters and scenarios instead

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u/babytommy May 04 '21

Such a weird strawman to choose, too. I’m a woman from an upper middle class family. We went to public school. I haven’t even gone to college, and my sister isn’t going anywhere fancy. My mom could barely pull together enough money for a down payment on her house. My dad could only afford the down payment on his condo with an inheritance. My parents aren’t lawyers or doctors. My mom is a nurse who earns a fair wage for her work. Honestly I’m not sure what my dad’s job is at the moment, but it’s nothing prestigious.

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u/GrammatonYHWH May 04 '21

I am utterly convinces people like OP are just 100% morally bankrupt and incapable of empathy. They just can't imagine a person who benefited from a system AND wants to change it because they understand that it's unfair for someone to succeed because they were produced by rich parents. People like OP don't understand selflessness. They're stuck in the mentality that if it doesn't affect you, you shouldn't want to change it. That's sad.

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u/onandonandonandoff May 04 '21

That’s giving OP too much credit.

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u/LOLvisIsDead May 04 '21

They also think that people in high finance jobs make their money by "working hard".

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u/imnos May 04 '21

Right wingers are really good at muddying the waters and confusing the fuck out of what the argument should be, like the OPs post.

The real question we should be asking is what do people who are anti or pro capitalism stand to gain from their positions? An anti capitalist millionaire obviously has priorities and beliefs that come before his bank balance - i.e. improving society as a whole.

I can't say the same for anyone who is pro capitalism.

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u/IronTarcuss May 04 '21

This. You're not allowed to be self-aware. Being a hypocrite is encouraged. For the people so fucking obsessed with faith, the idea that someone is acting altruistic and in good faith is impossible to wrap their heads around.

Being critical of people's motivations is fine. Just accept the fact that you can be too critical. Can't see the forest through the trees and all that.

Good ol' divide and conquer. Plebs can't question the status-quo if they're too concerned thinking everyone and their mother is going to stab them in the back.

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u/Grandpas_Plump_Chode May 04 '21

Very much agree with this.

OP's point is trying to pigeonhole criticisms of capitalism into the capitalist hyper-individualism point of view which makes absolutely no sense.

"These people benefit from capitalism the most so why are they complaining??" Same reason white people support BLM or insured people support universal healthcare. Because they actually care about topics that benefit society as a whole, and don't selfishly base their entire worldview around what provides them with the most personal gain.

Really shows where OP's priorities lie if he can only comprehend things through the lens of "how does this benefit me?"

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u/happy_beaver May 04 '21

Most of the people who rebelled against the reactionary authoritarians in the 1700's and 1800's were the wealthy burgoisis class that profited mightily from the system as it existed.

Poor people don't have a monopoly on morality, sorry.

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u/SenatorRobPortman May 04 '21

lmao. The line “Do they not realize that the same people they demonize for contributing to a capitalistic society are also their own family members...” like, yes. The answer is yes. They do realize it.

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u/shinyjewels May 04 '21

I find it admirable when people who are "winning at capitalism" can take a step back and see how the system is unfair for the vast majority of people out there. I don't know why OP is villainizing people who have enough compassion and altruism to want to make the world better for more people, even at the expense of their own pockets.

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u/stug_life May 04 '21

I’m not rich but I’m well enough off. It’s not solely altruism, I’m willing to trade some of my material wealth for a social safety net and more equality. I have a good income and good job security but in our current system I could till like loose everything. That system makes me greedier because I feel like I need a lot of money in case the worst did happen to me.

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u/Hunnieda_Mapping May 04 '21

I find it frustrating whenever someone says humans are naturally greedy and thus socialist systems could never work, yet it's actually the capitalist system that encourages us to be greedy in the first place because this is the only way for self preservation in this system.

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u/koolkween May 05 '21

Exac-ta-fucking-mente. I’ve been thinking this exact comment for the past couple of months. Human nature is neither “greedy” or “selfless”. It’s all about adaptability. Because the conditions for survival under capitalism necessitates greed, competition, and individualism to survive, you’re gonna participate in just that. Now if the conditions for survival meant relying on each other, sharing what you can, treating other people’s needs at the level of your own, then what are we gonna do? Just fucking that! This isn’t even just humans, I bet it’s the whole animal kingdom.

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u/happy_beaver May 04 '21

US politics is braindead stupid on this point. By reducing all of morality to "Poor vs Rich" it manages to drive a class war that ends up hurting everyone except for the "super rich". Its an age old tactic that people fall for again and again and again.

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u/KrootLootGroup May 04 '21 edited May 11 '21

Marx literally says that. That’s part of Marxism and Marxist theory. Bourgeois Revolutions usually precede Revolutionary ones. Some even say its necessary!

The Bourgeois rebelled due to the class struggle and social contradictions between the Bourgeois and the remnants of the Aristocracy. The dictatorship of the Bourgeois Class from the victory over, and destruction of, the Aristocratic class gives/gave rise to the Proletariat as a class. Class Struggle is the primary and universal contradictions of our current societies.

Most of the “owns” against Marxism... are already talked about and accounted for in the actual works of Marxism

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u/Kristoffer__1 May 05 '21

Most of the “owns” against Marxism... are already talked about and accounted for in the actual works of Marxism

The vast majority of people that criticize Marxism have never read a single word that Marx (or any communist/socialist thinker) has written.

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u/CactusMead May 04 '21 edited May 05 '21

I recently commented on another topic that I moved to Texas because it made sense for me, because despite the poor state of the state I can manage because we have an above average income, but I recognize that the system is unfair for the majority. A bunch of Texans came swinging and one guy said I have no self awareness. I'm not even sure he knows what the word means. This is analogous to all the wannabe-millionaire poor who feel personally attacked by taxes on the rich. When a rich person says the rich need to be taxed more, they are vilified and it blows my mind.

As a racial minority, I find great strength in white people who stand with me. Without their voice, mine is considered illegitimate. As an immigrant, I need Americans to fight for my rights with me. We always need people who are experts in their subjects to point out the flaws.

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u/roeravid May 04 '21

Lol OP you're telling on yourself rn it's called compassion

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u/Suprsim May 04 '21

What about all the people who work long, hard hours their entire lives, who get paid in peanuts and basically sacrifice their well being and sanity for basically no gain on the financial ladder? Chances are they aren't on fucking NYC streets protesting; how could they possibly have the time?

This is just some more "everyone in THIS tribal group is like THIS" type of mentality. Nuance and subtlety will get us further socially, and learning to accept there are areas of our society that will benefit from left/socialist style governing, and some areas that will require free markets to continue to grow AND that for as long as humans are humans there are going to be people of all wealth classes arguing which side those things should be on.

By talking to each other (even with people whom you may disagree) civilly and in good faith we can figure out where compromise can be made and hopefully make everyone's lives better.

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u/AzafTazarden May 04 '21

Basically it's confirmation bias. OP doesn't talk to poor people to learn their opinions. Many don't even have time or energy to form opinions, or the money to study sociology and economics. OP's social circle only includes the people he describes, so in his mind they're the only ones complaining about capitalism.

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u/MrTostadita May 04 '21

Nah, man. It's just the rich. Poor people obviously love capitalism.

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u/Adorable_Anxiety_164 May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

I grew up pretty poor (like bad teeth poor) and I don't like capitlaism as it is currently. I think under-regulated capitalism is harmful and it is why the income gap is growing. The current system makes breaking out of generational poverty impossible for many and seems to be putting more people into poverty.

I think people are too divided over terms. Most of the time I've realized that the working poor of all racial/ethnic backgrounds, from either party, will tend to agree on the problems and potential solutions when they are presented without the divisive rhetoric.

I took a career I knew would not be high earning, but I did expect it to enable me to earn enough to have some financial security. Money was never my motivation, but I still need it to survive.

What if everybody made decisions based only on money? We'd have no case managers or teachers. Do we need that many people in finance?

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u/postcardmap45 May 04 '21

Yes exactly this. OP thinks you should be punished for not wanting to work in a field that doesn’t interest you

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

OPs opinion isn’t so much unpopular as dystopian.

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u/postcardmap45 May 04 '21

Very dystopian sadly :/

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u/k2_electric_boogaloo May 04 '21

It's also completely missing the point that many people who take lower paying jobs that interest them are critical to a healthy and functioning society, like teachers and social workers. Not everyone can (or should) be paid strictly based on the profit they bring.

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u/pewqokrsf May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

I grew up upper middle class, graduated with no debt, made over 100k right out of college in software.

Unadulterated capitalism sucks and is killing people.

Acting like your opportunity to take advantage of capitalism is just around the corner is ignoring the fact that your life sucking and the lives of your parents and their parents sucking is also due to capitalism.

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u/zultdush May 04 '21

Didn't you know you can't both be within a totalling system, and criticize it while participating in it?

I have the same trajectory as you, and I am lucky. I know I am seeing how many people are trying and failing to break into software engineering. Just wait until amazon has AI do 90% of software development and offers it as a service. Shits gonna get really madmaxian for us in a hurry.

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u/RobotKitten May 04 '21

I am young and I've been lucky to be financially successful.

I don't want to live in a country divided between the "haves" and "have nots", even if I am a "have". I don't like seeing people struggle through the hellscape. I don't like seeing places I care about collapse. I feel guilty, but there's little to do to help. I don't want a higher status than others.

I understand my position is fragile. What if I get a head injury? What if I can no longer work and lose my health insurance? What if I become disabled? What if it happens a family member? Having no social safety net is perilous.

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u/MrDuhVinci May 04 '21

In my eyes it's as simple as this... central planning is woefully inefficient at bringing together the resources/methods necessary to create complicated things at scale, affordably. Your computer/phone is unfathomably complex and requires the 'cooperation and competition' between everything from mining companies to people designing robots to dab glue on the end of a widget.

But your computer/phone doesn't exist without massive expenditure into 'basic' research... you don't get any computer related industry without Alan Turing and his state funded research around the time of WW2... same goes for the internet, World Wide Web, touchscreens, GPS....

You need both for innovation, and innovation is single best way to improve the worst off in society... I'll take whatever arrangement of Public/Private expenditure brings cures for rare diseases, devices that cure blindness, adds years to peoples lives... but it NEEDS both, fundamentally.

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u/Phenomenon98 May 04 '21

Just because you were born in a wealthier family or are in an upper class of people doesn't mean your criticism and frustrations with the system are unjust or invalid.

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u/AirierWitch1066 May 04 '21

“I can’t believe white people are against owning slaves when they benefit from slavery. What hypocrites!”

Exact same argument, but hopefully we can all see why it’s dumb as shitz

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u/TheQuinnBee May 04 '21

I'm one of the people being described so let me explain. My father was a surgeon. I went to college on his dime. Then after college I lived with my now husband in a 700 square foot apartment while we paid off his student loans, surviving off discounted food. It's called checking your privilege.

My husband is the son of a pensioned postal worker. He wasnt rolling in dough. But he is 10x smarter and motivated than I'll ever be. He graduated with 3 majors. He went to grad school for aerospace. And by the end of it, his credit was so screwed up that we couldn't even get married until he fixed it. Out of the two of us, he was far more deserving of his education than I was. I had zero motivation and just kind of did whatever my parents wanted me to, skirting by with Bs and the occasional A.

That hardly seems fair. His entire life was put on hold for years while he worked off the debt. I could've been where he is currently financially in my mid twenties with zero effort on my part.

Then there's my friends. One of my friends had to decide between eating and childcare during COVID because schools shut down. How is that okay? I assisted as much as I could, but it shouldn't be my job to ensure she has a living wage in a time of crisis. Where is the government in all this?

A woman got stuck in between a train and the platform, and rather screaming in pain or for help, she was screaming for people to not call an ambulance because it was 3000 dollars and she couldn't afford it.

And then there's just the financial aspect of it. Why is our government subsidizing companies to not pay living wages? If someone is on food stamps because their job doesn't lift them out of poverty, who is paying for that? Us! We can't just expect companies to raise wages. We have seen they won't. They just line CEOs pockets. So we need laws to force them.

Have I benefitted? Absofuckinglutely. And I would do it again. Just because I was blessed does not mean I should be blind to the plight of others. It doesn't make me a hypocrite. I think everyone's life should be free from unnecessary suffering. 🤷

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u/Dm_Glacial_Gatorade May 05 '21

This comment should be higher. Great examples and perspective.

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u/Aaron_Hamm May 04 '21

Theres a good portion of people in these careers who work long, hard hours in order to improve their lives and the lives of their future families, but they end up being demonized because of this smart career choice.

While idiots abound, so some people might actually demonize those people, what's really being demonized is the economic system that requires this for a decent living.

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u/datonebri May 04 '21

"You hate society? But you live in a society... curious"

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u/yeahThatsOak May 04 '21

Thats my exact thoughts. This fucking thread is trash. Some of the top comments are like "in my country we call them iphone socialists." Litterally the vuvezuela 100,000 iPhone meme.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

socialism is when uhhh when uhhhh hold on wait uhhhh

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u/TheCaliKid89 May 04 '21

Right? It’s disheartening when there are enough idiots to upvote this to front page.

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u/AzafTazarden May 04 '21

"You hate humans? But you are a human"

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u/rlyjustanyname May 04 '21

You do realise you can criticise a system without advocating for communism. Uni here in Germany will set you back 150€ per Semester. And it is the easiest way to get out of poverty in the long run. If only rich people can afford it then your odds of escaping poverty are slimmer and slimmer. And also only a very miniscule fraction of rich people have worked their way from the bottom. Most rich people just inherit a shitton of money or made connections through their rich parents, this is a statistical fact.

The reason people who have profited off the system advocate against it is because they see how easy the system is to be gamed by rich people. I didn't grow up rich at all, but my girlfriend has a pretty prestigious dad. And I can see how certain things are just easier if you are wealthy and well connected a lot of things become cheap or straight up free. So if you have any compassion and you strive for an equal society you advocate against a system that works like that, even if you might turn out worse for it.

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u/dust4ngel May 04 '21

You do realise you can criticise a system without advocating for communism

this is actually false. if you say for example, "i support a simplification of the US tax code," that automatically makes you a communist. communism is like gluten, it's a catch-all word for "stuff that's bad according to gwyneth paltrow"

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u/rlyjustanyname May 04 '21

Ah naturally my fellow commrade, let us spread the good word of communism by advocating for insulin that's only 299$ a pop. Just like commrade stalin would have wanted us to.

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u/Old_Fridge1066 May 04 '21

Nice strawman lol. Also, just because someone benefits from something doesn’t mean they can’t be against it.

I’m against systematic racism!

But you’re white that’s impossible lol

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u/Carl_JAC0BS May 04 '21

There's probably people out there like you described, but there's also people who see what automation is already doing and realize that we're in the middle of a major shift. It's debatable whether capitalism can survive and whether it is capable of providing the stability and prosperity that it has for the world in recent history.

There is no doubt about the benefits of capitalism, but your argument is lacking depth. In a world that has largely moved beyond the subsistence economy and human labor is no longer as valuable, socialism (as one generalized alternative example) appears to be a lot more attractive. I'm not advocating for socialism, but simply making the point that your argument is lacking. There's a lot more to be said about this topic and you're distracted by one meaningless subset.

they expect society to shift in order to cater to them.

Maybe it is irrelevant what they want, and more about their prediction of the inevitable.

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u/Idonoteatass May 04 '21

I'm in the automation industry and there are sooooo many jobs that could literally be replaced by a robot. But I'm afraid what we will see from that is many unemployed people while the owners and executives of these companies roll in cash.

I've seen 3 companies so far buy a bunch of automation equipment and then cut way back on their workers. Only takes 1 person to do the job of 5 people as fast as 20 people could do it. It would be stupid to keep people on the payroll just to stick a thumb up their ass all day.

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u/Carl_JAC0BS May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

Right and the threat to the driving and service industries is substantial. The industries that have minimal qualifications for entry to jobs are the most daunting jobs to lose. What jobs will people move into? Those industries that are getting automated were previously the largest pools of jobs.

We no longer need 1 human for every task, which is in direct conflict with the fact that the human population has never been so massive.

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u/Unbentmars May 04 '21

It’s also a limited view of people. There are actually people out there who would willingly sacrifice some luxuries so other people could gain things they need

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u/Corolla_rolla May 04 '21

I have doubts about the benefits of capitalism.

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u/Carl_JAC0BS May 04 '21

As a measurement of net value, I have doubts as well. My statement was intended to express that there are certainly benefits associated with capitalism. The debate is whether the costs of capitalism are more weighty than the benefits. It's difficult to be absolutely certain in that debate.

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u/Grazthespaz May 04 '21

I don't know if you have use this term in the US but in the UK we call these people "champagne socialists"

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u/PapaQuino123 May 04 '21

In Brazil we call them "Socialistas de Iphone", or Iphone socialists.

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u/r4tt3d May 04 '21

In Germany we call them "Grüne-Wähler", or voters of the green party.

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u/Scary_Associate2 May 04 '21

In India, we call them 'Penguin Sena/ Penguin Army'.

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u/InvestigatorNo9847 May 04 '21

Really? I’m trying to figure out why that would be?

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u/Donkey__Balls May 04 '21

In the Goblin kingdom under the Misty Mountains , we call them "Elf-friends".

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

Hmm. Why? Can you explain?

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u/ev_forklift May 04 '21

Communists/Socialists who show up in suits and tuxes if I had to guess

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u/bear_or_beer May 04 '21

Ehrenmann

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u/stormtrooper500 May 04 '21

Ah yes, socialism is when no iphone

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u/Wittyname0 May 04 '21

Didnt the green party actually win big in the recent election? Or where those just polling predictions

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u/r4tt3d May 04 '21

These are polling predictions.

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u/alexcarchiar May 04 '21

In Italy these people are "Comunisti col Rolex"

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u/AGodInColchester May 04 '21

Champagne socialists, limousine liberal, and caviar communist are the ones I’ve heard stateside.

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u/4pp4r1t10n May 04 '21

I like "Latte Leninist" LOL.

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u/New-Reaction5944 May 04 '21

On the other side of the spectrum there’s “Frappe Fascist”

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u/Crazy_Gemini06 May 04 '21

I like that one too!

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u/htiafon May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

I was homeless less than three years ago. I stayed alive only because i had free healthcare. Then i got lucky and found a niche, and now i make a 90th percentile income. Should i forget that history? Should i just pretend everything is fine because it happens to have worked out for me personally? In 99 of 100 timelines, i ended up dead in late 2018, and everything i could offer the world was lost with me.

EDIT since people are asking: my story, in detail and with the benefit of hindsight. (I don't endorse that subreddit, but i did years ago and that's why i posted my followup there.)

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u/Joe_Jeep May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

It's a classic line of bullshit really

If you're poor and support the ideas you're jealous and greedy, if you're rich you're a hypocrite

See, checkmate leftists, now no one can question the status quo!

This isn't to say there's no argument to be had, this specific one is just god-awful stupid and you hear it a lot.

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u/Richard_Gere_Museum May 04 '21

Yeah I always thought Russell Brand put it nicely

“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”

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u/UH-Sustenance May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

Oh this whole post is mind bogglingly stupid. If you grew up having your needs exceeded and getting a good education you can’t support anything other than capitalism right? Otherwise you’re a “hypocrite” for not giving away all your money to go move into a working class neighborhood or something. And you can’t own anything deemed to be “valuable” either! You like socialism but own an iPhone, GOTCHA!! Stupid arts kid, shoulda got a STEM degree like me, the superior white guy with no qualms whatsoever about exploiting the people beneath me! The truly noble thing to do is make eight figures a year exploiting subprime mortgages and pump dumping stocks for your hedge fund, you’re just supporting your family the only way you know how.

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u/Son_Giouku_Giovanna May 04 '21

STEM degree holding Communist here, please don't generalize this way. I and most of my coworkers are all leftists or socdems at the least.

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u/UH-Sustenance May 04 '21

Oh I’m not saying that. Hashtag not all stem majors, and you folks do good work and we obviously need you, I don’t think anyone would say otherwise.

However, I’m not gonna sit here on a website populated in large part by early twenties white guys studying engineering or the sciences and not act like condescension and a superiority complex coming from many in that demographic isn’t a huge ass problem (literally read the post we’re commenting on), especially online but honestly quite a bit IRL too. That’s also a demographic you’ll find over represented in far right and supremacist groups. My point isn’t to malign STEM but to point to something that is a problem, inarguably in my view.

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u/Usually_Angry May 04 '21

exactly this.

the implication of this opinion is that a son of a doctor is the bad guy for saying "I, and others in my situation, have more than I need; we should share more to help those who have less than they need"

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u/opersad May 04 '21

Same with education. If you have a bad education, you are only criticising capitalism because you "failed" within the system or are too uneducated to understand how great our deadly system is, but if you have a good degree, then you just lost contact with the reality and have never worked hard in your life and are against capitalism out of boredom or sth.

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u/Keown14 May 04 '21

Yep.

Left wing and poor?

Politics of envy.

Left wing and educated?

Metropolitan elite.

Left wing and rich?

Champagne socialist.

The right wing exists to support the rich, and nothing else.

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u/Sceptix May 04 '21

When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.

~ Russell Brand

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u/Frig-Off-Randy May 04 '21

Yet the sit and worship right wing populists lol

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u/Son_Giouku_Giovanna May 04 '21

Exactly, i went from sleeping on my sisters couch>working at a restaurant for 8 bucks an hour> taking classes at a community college > working 30 hrs a week thru engineering school at a true university> engineering job getting paid well with regular bonuses.

I read The Jungle when I was on that couch, it changed my view of the world. I realized how it's even harder for many others than I had it. I became a socialist, am I just supposed to abandon my views on inequality because now I'm wealthy? People like op are the truly privileged clueless ones. (notice theyre from NYC)

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

[deleted]

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u/mickeytr33s May 04 '21

Started selling cocaine

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u/superNoid May 04 '21

In the US we call them fucking idiots.

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u/Son_Giouku_Giovanna May 04 '21

that makes sense, only fat Americans would think having a collectivist viewpoint and empathy translates to being "idiots"

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u/leftovernoise May 04 '21

Hey look, you did the society meme, and the iphone meme in one go! Good job champ!

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u/megagamer92 May 04 '21

I literally had someone a day or two ago use the "you want to change away from capitalism, but you're typing this message on a phone or laptop" against me. Such a dumb "counterpoint."

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u/leftovernoise May 04 '21

How dare you criticize society while you also live in society.

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u/lurch940 May 04 '21

This is an unpopular opinion because it genuinely sucks

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u/BerRGP May 04 '21

Yeah, this sub is just either popular opinions, or unpopular opinions that are only unpopular on the basis of not having any basis whatsoever.

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u/FunderbunkPlays May 04 '21

Came here to say this. I'm honestly not sure if it's an actual opinion or if it's just karma whoring by creative writing assignment about dumb opinions.

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u/bumpkin_Yeeter May 04 '21

"You claim to hate slavery, yet you are not a slave? Curious"

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u/Valo-FfM May 04 '21

Its so idiotic. But some people cant understand empathy or reflection of the self and reflection about the environment.

OP for example.

"Your parents have stocks and you got always a nice childhood yet you dont shut up about the world and its roaring injustice, curious? PS: Only idiots go to College."

Its definitely clear who will never go to College here. Its OP.

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u/GoatTrade May 04 '21

“When I was poor and criticized capitalism they said I was just lazy and jealous, when I was rich and criticized capitalism they said I was an out of touch hypocrite.”

Like it or not we need wealthy people to advocate against capitalism just as much as poor people.

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u/maybejustadragon May 04 '21

Yeah. And the assumption of this post is the hatred of capitalism is about “what’s in it for me.” If I were born rich, am I not allowed to show compassion when I learn about slaves that the system runs on. Am I not allowed to feel guilt after I go to understand just how harmful my footprint is. Can I not feel for the Chinese workers making my electronic. The African child labourers pull cobalt out of the mines. The Bengali children sitting in strollers beside their mothers in hot, poorly built, and overall dangerous conditions so I can purchase a shirt for 10$ at H&M? Can I not want change even though it would go against my individual self-interest. OP honestly sounds selfish af.

It’s possible to be born in a system, and benefit from it, and later feel guilt and a need for change just because I benefitted from it.

I’m with you on this one. Change need compassion from those who the system benefits AND self-interest from those who the system exploits. OPs understanding of this issue does lack nuance to the point of being outwardly toxic and I feel as a slight humble brag too.

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u/magentakitten1 May 04 '21

Agreed. I’m 36 and just realized about 5 years ago how privileged I am. I had no clue about anything political and just had my head in the sand- because that’s how I was raised to be. It took Trump really to open my eyes and now I advocate for voting and do all I can. I’d hate to think people think I’m a hypocrite because I learned to be better. If that’s the case, than what’s the point of arguing our point with those who oppose us? If we never plan to accept them in our circle they will never leave theirs.

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u/Durinl May 04 '21

The people that call you a hypocrite are those that want to shut you up because of their own agenda.

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u/Pied_Piper_ May 04 '21

I got through the hardest financial time in my life by starting a dog walking business. I needed strangers to trust me with access to their homes.

I’m sure me being male, white, and college educated had nothing to do with why I outcompeted all the other walkers in my area who weren’t those things. /s

Once I got big enough I hired all of them, took a 6% commission (little under 2$ for every 30 they made) on all the walks they got through me and we all did great.

Until pandemic and now we’re all unemployed together :)

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u/Outrage-Is-Immature May 04 '21

And replace it with what???? Socialism? Communism? People are corrupt it doesn’t matter what system you choose there will always be corruption. Best chose the system that at least works the best.

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u/R_Charles_Gallagher May 04 '21

thats a pretty massive generalization

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u/Dis0lved May 04 '21

This is a straw man argument. Many self made hard working people with good educations and stable careers are socialists. Failed rich kids with student debt are not "the people who most strongly advocate against capitalism", this is your first straw man. Also, criticizing capitalism doesn't mean you criticize the people who benefit from or or participate in it, like you suggest. This is another straw man. Criticizing capitalism doesn't mean you don't recognize the hard work of the honest people that do make a living and grow rich under capitalism, this is your third straw man. Being critical of capitalism essentially means that you acknowledge that a large amount of people work very hard (sometimes as hard as or harder than those who succeed and grow rich) without reaping the fruit of their own labor. Sometimes in failed pseudo-capitalist countries like the US it is even the case that extremely hard working and honest people or their dependent family members die early from lack of access to basic health care and education, or suffer extreme stress and distress due to difficult life circumstances that would have been completely preventable with proper worker protections and public health care. The issue with admitting systemic fault in the US flavor of capitalism is that many Americans see any criticism of their economic and social system as an attack on their national identity, largely due to the red scare of the Mccarthyist era and the footprint it left in US culture.

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u/Deep_Grady May 04 '21

One of the bigger dumpster fire threads I've seen in some time. Outdid yourself reddit.

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u/Kumozura May 04 '21

Fuck that I'm poor as fuck and hate capitalism with a passion

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u/Claytonius21 May 04 '21

A lot of people who are critical of capitalism don't have any student debt, and even if they did it doesn't nullify the criticisms.

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u/stinkyman360 May 04 '21

Right? I work in construction, have no student debt, and still hate capitalism because 60¢ of every dollar I earn goes to my lazy ass boss

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u/tetrimoist May 04 '21

I have to disagree because every socialist I’ve met has worked in social services, healthcare, and education. These paraprofessional often are first hand the inequality in capitalism. I’m sorry, but this opinion seems to be pretty exclusive to your POV, I only think so many people agree cause some people will go with anything that goes against socialism. Upvote for unpopular tho

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u/AvJ164 May 04 '21

You think the society you live in is flawed but you still live in it? r/iamverysmart

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u/PeroniNinja84 May 04 '21

So in other words, just because they come from comfortable upbringings they aren’t allowed to be anything other than conservative?

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u/King_Saline_IV May 04 '21

I feel like this guy living in NYC doesn't interact with anyone outside of Upper middle class whatever.

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u/Deadmist May 04 '21

And if they are poor they are just jealous, so their opinion doesn't count.
It's just another way to dismiss any criticism.

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u/treestreestreesand May 04 '21

Yeah I think it kind of makes sense they'd be critical of it.

At certain point of wealth you realize you have much more than you need while masses are struggling, but if you just hand it out nothing's gonna change overall. It needs to be a systemic change.

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u/DanielagainDaniel May 04 '21

well put. I can give away all of my money and I will simply make myself poor while barely making a dent in this machine that churns on. Argue for systemic change? now "you're a hypocrite"

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u/Solace312 May 04 '21

This. So much this. I grew up very comfortable. I am 30 and making a good salary that would put me in the upper middle class now (six figures). Sometimes I will think, I have more than everything I need and I have padding to get most of the stuff I want. What would I even do with double my salary?! Triple?!?! It makes you realize what excess truly is. And if you have a thread of empathy in your body you can't help but ask yourself why everyone can't have this. There is no reason other than a broken system. I know that I've benefited by growing up a white, middle-class male. I know I was lucky. Luck should have very little to do with it.

It's seeing the problems from another side.

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u/Sgt_Smitty May 04 '21

I think people can be pro-capitalism and pro-social safety nets (like national healthcare or public daycare), but everyone is so tribal these days they would have you believe the two are mutually incompatible.

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u/soviet_thermidor May 04 '21

Why did the Marquis de Lafayette, a nobleman, whose entire life was bankrolled by hereditary nobility, start revolutions on two continents to establish a republic?

Sometimes people recognize that their wealth, success and leisure was gained through an unjust system, and they want to right that wrong

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u/basementmagus May 04 '21

Same with Pytr Kroptopkin, who is considered the bread Santa of Anarcho-communism. Literally was Russian Royalty, yet rebuked the system and privileges he was born into because he saw the flaws of it.

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u/tavison May 04 '21

ITT: communism is when no iphone venezuela

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u/maxbd07 May 04 '21

Okay? Maybe some people are sympathetic to the people who get fucked over by the system even if they themselves don’t? You don’t need to be doing poorly to recognize other people are.

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u/bumpkin_Yeeter May 04 '21

Ya Im not gonna lie I have a pretty great career as a firefighter with excellent pay and benefits and no debt. Even though my job is to basically help people, I still want my taxes to be used to help others instead of starting useless wars. I will shed no tear over some rich asshole getting taxed more. There's an Amazon warehouse in my district who never bothers to fix their fire alarm so every time we go out there they basically ignore us the whole time because they can afford the fine. It's super frustrating

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u/GoGoStopStopWhat May 04 '21

This.

The fact that you have upper class people in your favour is an advantage.

Just because someone got lucky and has a good/great life doesnt make them an ass by default.

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u/theneonlobster May 04 '21

I grew up very poor and witnessed things that lead me to determine that Capitalism is fundamentally flawed.

Now I do very well, but that’s because I exploited the flaws, which means my success was at the expense of the same people I grew up with.

I can criticize Capitalism while shopping at grocery stores and driving a newish car. I only wish I could do something more than offering criticisms.

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u/it_be_like_dat_ May 04 '21

“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”

  • Russell Brand

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u/mr-ued May 04 '21

Lol thank you. I guess to this person white people cant be pro civil rights either? Gotta stay in ones lane i suppose.

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u/Censored_Hk May 04 '21

fr fr. I suddenly feel bad about how much cash me n my friends have cuz a old mate of mine from a simple family is now struggling financially since his dad died and now his previously stay at home mom has to feed 2 teenagers n take care of them

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u/OratioFidelis May 04 '21

When the poor complain about wealth inequality, they're called envious. When the rich do, they're called hypocrites.

They're not making good faith arguments, they're waiving a real discussion.

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u/unstablepelican May 04 '21

So Jeff bezos is a socialist? It appears you are cherry picking and therefore your results are heavily biased...

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u/peacock_trickster May 04 '21

Living in a Capitalist society doesn't mean you can't be critical of that society. I am not a fan of what I call the "brunchers" who criticise and complain about things that don't affect them in the slightest but in a free society every voice should be heard. Is it hypocritical of them? Maybe, but it doesn't take a 100k education to see that Capitalism is failing THE PEOPLE of the USA.

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u/doit_toit_lars May 04 '21

Upvoting because hopefully this is super unpopular. You sound like a jerk. Just because people have suffered under capitalism up until now doesn’t mean that future generations have you. Capitalism is fueling the end of the world and people like you are cheering it on.

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u/bigdumbhead1990 May 04 '21

So nobody in finance comes from well-to-do families lol. Everyone on Wall Street pulled themselves up from their bootstraps? I’m sure you’re only talking about a specific person and generalizing but I feel like this is completely misguided. Critiquing capitalism should be a fully normal thing. Capitalism favors the rich and as more and more regulations are stripped away, we can see the consequences of business left unchecked. Anyway, I disagree so take my upvote.

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u/billy_bandito May 04 '21

OP do you think that you have to be a slave in order to think that slavery is bad? Perhaps you lived in a house that slaves built for your family, is it suddenly better because you personally benefited from that? Please reevaluate your arguement before I use some gamer words on you.

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u/SpookyTurkishKebab May 04 '21

It would probably be like this -I don't like living as a slave -Haha but you eat the food your master give you

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u/And_Justice May 04 '21

I don't really understand why this is such a bad thing? Socialism doesn't have an entry requirement and it's completely plausible for someone to feel like everyone should have an equal upbringing despite them receiving the more favourable upbringing over capitalism.

I feel like some people seem to imply that these people should be contributing their wealth to the poor but I find that attitude is one that furthers capitalism rather than contradicts it.

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u/Mister_Moltar May 04 '21

Congrats on having the most milquetoast, conservative talking point that entirely fails to engage with the actual ideas and policies of socialism. Literally everyone who grows up in a capitalist society must engage in capitalism in order to survive. That isn’t being hypocritical. Regardless of the person’s wealth, if someone wishes to see institutional change, where a plurality of citizens can see the benefits of a modern society, and live with dignity and comfort without the burden of their entire adult lives being consumed by nonstop work, debt, and despair, I think that person might have a good idea or two. I don’t fucking care if they got an expensive Christmas gift from their stock broker uncle, or if their parents paid their way thru college. THAT IS IRRELEVANT.

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u/dirtyredsweater May 04 '21

You hate society? But you live in society...... Gotcha! /s

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u/stutteringarmycarney May 04 '21

Upper middle class women are huge into virtue signalling, they don’t really understand what they’re doing. They just do it to feed their narcissistic tendencies

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u/Toralar May 04 '21

You're wrong because you are basing this exclusively off of your own personal experience. Widen your view to outside of NYC and outside of the US.

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u/backupstrapon May 04 '21

Uh, I can't speak to the specific example you've provided, but historically and currently I'm very certain that it is the people most exploited by the capitalist system that criticize it.

Also, keep in mind that lot of people, either against or for it, tend to not really understand what capitalism is when they speak on it.

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u/pearlday May 04 '21

Immigrants are the ones exploited the most, and most immigrants (not talking about their kids here) are pro-capitalist and anti-socialism. The reason is because most immigrants come to the US fleeing socialist, fascist, communist etc. regimes. My mom is an example, she left Peru and gained american citizenship because the military was in charge and repossessing properties. I have friends who’s parents fled Mao Zedong / China. Maybe the US isn’t doing super great now, but 30 years ago immigration into the US for economic mobility was huge and mostly successful.

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u/hyperblob1 May 04 '21

You complain about society yet You participate in it. Curious!

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u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In May 04 '21

The problem is that people don't really know what they're complaining about. They don't hate capitalism, they hate the particular version that is prevalent at the moment, which is to say, almost completely unrestrained capitalism with minimal enforcement of social costs on corporations.

They see the people at the top capturing wealth, they see the poor getting poorer, they see gross underspending in vital services and they think this is a failure of capitalism. The problem is not that capitalism is inherently worse than any other economic system, it's that no system can withstand decades of corruption. The ability of the rich to direct politics to suit their own interests allows them to shape the rules and the public narrative so that controls on corporate behavior are violently beaten back. They can control the discourse by buying media power so that efforts to organise against them are suppressed (just look at reporting on unions in the USA, you'd be forgiven for assuming they spent their time murdering children given the vitriol).

Burning down capitalism isn't the answer, the real solution is much, much harder. Introducing powerful controls on corporate bad behavior, protecting and promoting workers rights, demanding full payment of taxes and elimination of unfair loopholes, demanding a minimum standard of life for every person, elimination of transfer pricing used to offshore revenue shifting, transparancy in all political donations and massive punishment for bribery (which needs to be made a crime again).

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u/LitMaster11 May 04 '21

This truly is an unpopular opinion on Reddit.

Although in reality, I don't think you'll find this as all that uncommon of an opinion to hold.

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u/zundra616 May 04 '21

So by your logic men and women cant advocate for each others rights or anyone of any race can't for other people either. Nice black and white view of the world dog

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u/DaSpenDawg May 04 '21

The criticism of capitalism coming from these affluent individuals you are talking about isn’t because of their lack of life experience as you’re suggesting here, it comes from their education which elucidates the reality of the capital marketplace to them. Capitalism is a wonderful model to get a blossoming economy off the ground but as that system matures, the capital within the economy has already been accumulated by select individuals, perhaps based off merit, but more frequently through nepotism. The same nepotism that the affluent individuals you were criticizing also enjoy. Even if you are coming from this affluence, you are not immune to the obvious inequity that’s all around you, and if your young and haven’t earned any of it, it’s not a surprising conclusion to come to that you’d want that equity shared around more to ease your guilt and improve the standard of living within your society.

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u/DLS3141 May 04 '21

Some people act out of a sense of injustice to others, even if that's contrary to their own selfish interest

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u/shrubbery_enthusiast May 04 '21

Exactly, the concept of empathy is so alien to some conservatives that they will ascribe anterior motives to empatgetic people such as 'virtue signaling'.

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u/elfonmushrooms May 04 '21

Working the System doesnt mean you have to agree with it.

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u/Xynth22 May 04 '21 edited May 04 '21

I'm pretty sure Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk are pretty pro-capitalism.

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u/AStrangeHorse May 04 '21

I’ve never met someone from upper class who complain about capitalism to improve their own condition. I’m from upper class myself but if I’m against capitalism it’s not to improve my own condition, but to suppress some of my privilege so everyone can have a decent life... I didn’t decide to be born in a family with money but I’m conscious that I have privilege that I don’t deserve more than other people.

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u/trav5270 May 04 '21

We live in a capitalist society. There is literally no choice but to benefit immensely from it.

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u/FateEx1994 May 04 '21

I may be privileged and have a good life, but I see others that don't and that that system could be better. That's my argument for social democracy.

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u/JustJennifer709 May 04 '21

Maybe its the education that makes them think capitalism is bad, you know learning shit?

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u/burglicious May 04 '21

The issue is there’s no medium. A governments sole job is to provide the populous with safety, security and the ability to provide for themselves. The US government has sorely failed to provide for its citizens despite taking large amounts of money through taxes. What truly needs to happen is a core reckoning of what our taxes should go to. Education, healthcare and other social programs which allow for people to live more comfortable lives should be implemented. That being said, the attitude that some more extreme socialists have of “anti work” is ludicrous. Socialist states run off of collective work. Everyone has to pitch in or nothing works. It’s why a capitalist base with expansive social programs is necessary. Unfortunately the US had a capitalist base with weak social programs for the middle/lower class and large social welfare programs for upper class

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u/vampyreegg May 04 '21

Or, hear me out here, they aren't selfish and actually care about the homeless and impoverished that very much aren't benefitting from the system.

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u/mercuchio23 May 04 '21

post that inadvertently support communism

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u/ERIKSONSON68 May 04 '21

My families on tax benefits, I'm certainly not from a "well off background" yet I still don't like capitalism

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u/malignantpolyp May 04 '21

No, it's those of us who remember what things were like before the late 70s and 80s.

In the late 40s into the 60s, unions were strong, upper end tax rates were through the roof, and record numbers of people moved from the working class into the middle class.

The 80s roll around, unions begin to get stomped, upper end tax rates are cut to historic lows, "greed is good" and "government is incompetent and bad" become mantras, working class incomes stop tracking with rises in GDP and instead flatten out, while the profits of the wealthy begin to absolutely skyrocket.

Wealth disparity grows daily, business owners are called "job creators," neglecting the fact that without workers to do the actual work, the businesses wouldn't make any money, and the extraordinarily rich are viewed as savants. I remember the time when the Carnegies and Vanderbilts were viewed with suspicion. Now, a whole segment of the working class defends their rights to hoard money and property - "taxation is theft" and all that Ayn Rand BS. The rate at which the wealthy are getting richer is increasing at an ever-unsustainable rate. The Fed has held rates at near zero and dumped $120 billion monthly into stock markets, after making $1.5 trillion immediately available last March, basically welfare for the 0.1%. The markets go up, they keep the profits. The markets go down, the government bails them out. The deck is thoroughly stacked. Class mobility is almost non-existent. Career jobs with health insurance and pensions are few and far between, compared to the golden years of the 50s and 60s.

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u/Doser91 May 04 '21

People who come from well off families don't have student debt, so this a pretty fictional character you have created for your unpopular opinion.

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u/romans13_8 May 04 '21

Ooooofffff... that is a bold post in this echo-chamber of entitled idiots. Godspeed, sir.